What to do against an initial kubel-push?
18 Jan 2015, 13:54 PM
#1
Posts: 24
Hey guys. Would strongly appreciate some input on this Replay
18 Jan 2015, 21:06 PM
#2
Posts: 32
Clown cars are usually a safe bet to scare away a Kubel. But seen as you were playing USF, your best hope is to try and flank it and attack it from multiple directions, as soon as you force it to move it will not longer suppress your units. It's to be expected that a decent OKW player will try and force you to play by his terms early game by attacking your choke point with a Kubel. If flanking doesn't work an early M20 is probably the best hard counter as well as being brilliant at kiting volk blobs until you can get something heavier out.
19 Jan 2015, 12:07 PM
#3
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
On Semoski occupy the building near your cutoff with riflemen. In that way the Kübel won't suppress your squad and since the Kübel doesn't do much damage you will scare it off.
Likewise occupying the building near his cutoff will make him quite some problems since okw can't clear buildings unless you hug the building with stormpios or you get the infiltration grenades.
From Minute 5 on you should't have problems then, either rush a M20 or wait 2 minutes longer for the AA Halftrack.
Likewise occupying the building near his cutoff will make him quite some problems since okw can't clear buildings unless you hug the building with stormpios or you get the infiltration grenades.
From Minute 5 on you should't have problems then, either rush a M20 or wait 2 minutes longer for the AA Halftrack.
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Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
19 Jan 2015, 12:56 PM
#4
Posts: 131
Clown cars and penals with flamethrower.
Land mattress 350mp 40 fuel, 30 rockets
19 Jan 2015, 17:53 PM
#5
Posts: 56
Always move your riflemen/echelons together on the same side of the map against the silliness of OKW. You need to keep wide arcs so you don't get caught in his mobile MG42 arc and cleaned up with JagerShockSSpioneers, flank his car and move reinforcements up while using 1 unit to cap the other side of the map. His weakness is capping power and map presence with this opener but it has the chance of snowballing into a game winning advantage if you let it/waste too much time with it. GG.
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19 Jan 2015, 19:08 PM
#6
Posts: 41
Hey guys. Would strongly appreciate some input on this Replay
Surprised no one has mentioned this, Rear Echelon are REALLY GOOD at killing kubles. Even 1 RE in cover can get a kuble low and force it to retreat. I always go 2 RE into rifles which allows you to field more squads earlier and flank the kuble. You're still reliant on getting to cover before the kuble attacks you, but if you're smart and don't overextend then it's easy.
Rear echelon, it's just that simple.
19 Jan 2015, 21:28 PM
#7
1 
Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
Surprised no one has mentioned this, Rear Echelon are REALLY GOOD at killing kubles. Even 1 RE in cover can get a kuble low and force it to retreat. I always go 2 RE into rifles which allows you to field more squads earlier and flank the kuble. You're still reliant on getting to cover before the kuble attacks you, but if you're smart and don't overextend then it's easy.
Rear echelon, it's just that simple.
This. 2 REs 2 rifles,
if youre feeling really kinky go for a 3rd rifle,or 3rd RE,but preferably Elite Rifleman
flank like crazy until LT then M20, if you see aggressivemed truck skip M20 go AA HT
If hes using a truck to push. start building tank traps with ur RE's but dont finish them.
20 Jan 2015, 04:50 AM
#8
Posts: 91
Surprised no one has mentioned this, Rear Echelon are REALLY GOOD at killing kubles. Even 1 RE in cover can get a kuble low and force it to retreat. I always go 2 RE into rifles which allows you to field more squads earlier and flank the kuble. You're still reliant on getting to cover before the kuble attacks you, but if you're smart and don't overextend then it's easy.
Rear echelon, it's just that simple.
Do Re do more damage to kubles then rifleman?
20 Jan 2015, 04:58 AM
#9
Posts: 41
Do Re do more damage to kubles then rifleman?
I'll need someone to confirm the hard data, BUT basically RE have shit accuracy but good damage. This comes out to them being pretty meh vs. most targets since they just miss shots and the overall dps is low. However after the size change to kuble, it's much easier to hit, which in turn increased the RE potency vs. it. I'm not positive how this compares to the strength of rifles, but personal experience tells me that RE deliver the smackdown on kubles like no other. Another factor is that since RE are cheap and come out quickly, you're able to get into cover faster with them and not be caught by surprise. Plus you can have your second RE squad come help out when the first eventually gets suppressed.
20 Jan 2015, 06:41 AM
#10
Posts: 688
Sorry, but I have to call any suggestion void if it involves using more than one unit - let alone upgraded units - to counter one out-of-the-door unit.
Anyone can come up with a solution if it's just a matter of massing a superior number of counter units that can flank the enemy unit.
That's not the problem to be solved with kübelwagens.
The only real suggestion I see above is to put an infantry in a building, and this is preferable. But there are not buidings avaliable on all maps. So a good suggestion for other maps WITH ONE UNIT PER KUBEL is needed.
Remember that sometimes the best advice may be to avoid the fight all together ad go do something else...
Anyone can come up with a solution if it's just a matter of massing a superior number of counter units that can flank the enemy unit.
That's not the problem to be solved with kübelwagens.
The only real suggestion I see above is to put an infantry in a building, and this is preferable. But there are not buidings avaliable on all maps. So a good suggestion for other maps WITH ONE UNIT PER KUBEL is needed.
Remember that sometimes the best advice may be to avoid the fight all together ad go do something else...
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
20 Jan 2015, 18:21 PM
#11
Posts: 24
I really appreciate all the advice given here, but I haven't recived any real solution to the particular rush i encountered in this replay(?). The problem is that my first riflemensquad got suppresed before they even managed to cross the bridge. I guess i could send my engineer squad over right away, but that gives me delayed fuel, and that will put me behind if my opponent decides not to rush... hmm..
20 Jan 2015, 19:12 PM
#12
Posts: 56
I really appreciate all the advice given here, but I haven't recived any real solution to the particular rush i encountered in this replay(?). The problem is that my first riflemensquad got suppresed before they even managed to cross the bridge. I guess i could send my engineer squad over right away, but that gives me delayed fuel, and that will put me behind if my opponent decides not to rush... hmm..
You have to EXPECT this stupid Kubel rush from OKW and use flanks to beat it. If people above don't want to accept this as the counter well then good luck countering it! Personally i think it needs tweaking. This 1 unit guarantees far too much map control far too early. They should increase its build-time or something to lower its potency.
You need to push with 2 units and keep them spread apart so the Kubel needs time to re-focus its mobile MG42, giving your other unit more time out of suppression. If however he gets his SturmSSschwarzeneggerKillers into range of your suppressed units beforehand you will be forced to retreat and completely lose the opening map control contest. Great isnt it!
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21 Jan 2015, 00:22 AM
#13
Posts: 688
OK, then I'll provide what I consider the only same-cost solution: GET THERE FIRST. Or forget that position.
Ofc. you can come back later when you have an additional unit to flank with, but it's not a REAL solution.
That's how it plays.
Ofc. you can come back later when you have an additional unit to flank with, but it's not a REAL solution.
That's how it plays.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
21 Jan 2015, 03:42 AM
#14
Posts: 41
Sorry, but I have to call any suggestion void if it involves using more than one unit - let alone upgraded units - to counter one out-of-the-door unit.
Anyone can come up with a solution if it's just a matter of massing a superior number of counter units that can flank the enemy unit.
That's not the problem to be solved with kübelwagens.
The only real suggestion I see above is to put an infantry in a building, and this is preferable. But there are not buidings avaliable on all maps. So a good suggestion for other maps WITH ONE UNIT PER KUBEL is needed.
Remember that sometimes the best advice may be to avoid the fight all together ad go do something else...
I guess you didn't read any of my responses? If you get 1 RE squad into cover before the kuble starts firing (or at least as close as possible), it can force the kuble off or even kill it. A second RE squad will just secure the kill. 1 and even 2 RE squads is pretty cost effective to negate a kuble....
21 Jan 2015, 03:53 AM
#15
Posts: 41
I really appreciate all the advice given here, but I haven't recived any real solution to the particular rush i encountered in this replay(?). The problem is that my first riflemensquad got suppresed before they even managed to cross the bridge. I guess i could send my engineer squad over right away, but that gives me delayed fuel, and that will put me behind if my opponent decides not to rush... hmm..
I apologize. So I watched the replay and honestly I think it was just a timing issue. By the time your first rifle was leaving your base, he already had his sturmpios + kuble waiting at the bridge. It's especially problematic on semois due to the nature of the cutoff, but I think you would've stood a much better chance with an RE squad first. It's still possible that you could be in a hard spot with his sturms vs your RE, but I think it gives you a better chance at at least stalling for your rifle to get there. On other maps I find it easier to have my 2 REs join up early and really punish sturms trying to close ground. No such luck on semois :/ Hope this helps.
21 Jan 2015, 08:43 AM
#16
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
I really appreciate all the advice given here, but I haven't recived any real solution to the particular rush i encountered in this replay(?). The problem is that my first riflemensquad got suppresed before they even managed to cross the bridge. I guess i could send my engineer squad over right away, but that gives me delayed fuel, and that will put me behind if my opponent decides not to rush... hmm..
Just in case you've missed it -
Real Solution by Romeo
21 Jan 2015, 09:44 AM
#17
Posts: 24
WHAT? Does this actually work?
Just in case you've missed it -
Real Solution by Romeo
21 Jan 2015, 09:46 AM
#18
Posts: 24
Yeah thanks alot SgtBulldog, dTox and Jazzhead. It seem that it boils down to getting there first. Thanks alot for the help 
21 Jan 2015, 23:16 PM
#19
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
Try WC51 loaded with rifles or RE's from Mechanized doc too if you're still having trouble with these kubel rushes.
I had a phase where i couldnt counter this at all,and the WC51 helped me gain some confidence.
I had a phase where i couldnt counter this at all,and the WC51 helped me gain some confidence.
22 Jan 2015, 00:59 AM
#20
Posts: 41
Try WC51 loaded with rifles or RE's from Mechanized doc too if you're still having trouble with these kubel rushes.
I had a phase where i couldnt counter this at all,and the WC51 helped me gain some confidence.
Ehhhhhhhhh. It seems like the wc51 just doesn't perform nearly to the level it should for the cost. Plus it requires you to take a pretty terrible doctrine. It would be nice to seem some buffs for that doc but I'm not holding my breath.
Also did you find that it messed with your tempo a lot?
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