Will wehrmacht be fixed or not?Clear answer.

Grens/Scripts/Guards/Shocks/Penals/Pgrens

Vet 2 Increased Accuracy Nade Range etc

Vet 3 Surviability

Rifles

Vet 2

Surviability

Vet 3

Accuracy Nade Range etc.

Everybody but Rifles get bonuses to propel them from Vet 2 to Vet 3 much faster and become alot deadlier.

Rifles either start with veterancy commander,going to vet far sooner than grens.
Or get 1919 which will laugh at grenadiers even with lmgs.
Or get paras which will again laugh at grens while reinforcing at 28 mp kappa.

Not even bringing in light vehicle,or us one shotting options like motor/pack howie and sherman which ost don't have access to till tiger(which still can't one shot unless freak)

Take 20MP off pioneer cost. Not worth the premium they cost now.
Make grenadiers buildable from HQ to mirror other factions
Reduce HMG42 setup time by 0.5 seconds
Give sniper 8 more hp.

Done. Ostheer issues are not mid or lategame, their issue is that they can be rushed in the first few minutes and pushed off the map. Unit selection is fine, unit performance is fine after you have several squads, but individually in the very early stages their units are lackluster. A single grenadier squad against a single con or riflesquad does nothing but bleeds the ostheer player unless the allied player picks a very bad engagement, yet that's the only engagement you can take in the first 4 minutes.

What about panzergrenadiers?How do you justify this 40 reinforce and 1.13 recieved accuracy at 4 men and 340 mp.

Also what about tech costs..even with ur changes t4 will remain inaccessible and tiger meta same.

ostheer isnt Op, just play mechanized assault and see the real strenght, or learn to play from jesulin.

Not really.

OKW is batshit OP.
Ost struggles against USF.
You need to nerf OKW as hard as it takes, then you'll be able to adjust USF vs ost and it will also allow soviets vs OKW to be a balanced matchup instead of "hold to late game and slaughter everything with red star" scenario.
Sov vs ost matchup is pretty much alright and nothing changed here since WFA start except some soviet minor nerfs.

ALL WFA balance problems start and end with OKW.

+1

Its almost like trickle down balance. Fix OKW, then USF, Then Wher, and solv.

Wehr is definitely under preforming but in unit verity that are the most balanced and easy to understand. I don't like playing as germans but it is clearly visible that early wehr needs a fix and late game USF needs a fix.

+1

Its almost like trickle down balance. Fix OKW, then USF, Then Wher, and solv.

Wehr is definitely under preforming but in unit verity that are the most balanced and easy to understand. I don't like playing as germans but it is clearly visible that early wehr needs a fix and late game USF needs a fix.

Right USF has more balance issues than wehr?Now i have heard it..
Pzgrens,Popcornsprayer42,221car,tech costs -all these are OKW's fault.Nerf OKW and they will go away.Right man.

What about panzergrenadiers?How do you justify this 40 reinforce and 1.13 recieved accuracy at 4 men and 340 mp.

They're fine, don't expect them to be shock troops. They're not units you want to make on all maps and against all matchups, just like you don't really want thompson paras on langres.

Also what about tech costs..even with ur changes t4 will remain inaccessible and tiger meta same.

OKW and USF tech costs need fixing. And by fixing I mean they need to go up. Soviet and Ostheer tech costs are very similar, soviets just have more choice on skipping stuff.

Ostheer tech costs should be changed so buildings are the expensive part and the tiering costs are low, so skipping buildings would actually make sense. But don't pretend that ostheer T3 wouldn't already be viable.

Right USF has more balance issues than wehr?Now i have heard it..
Pzgrens,Popcornsprayer42,221car,tech costs -all these are OKW's fault.Nerf OKW and they will go away.Right man.

Buffing Ost or nerfing USF will mess up the balance between all of the factions. What is needed is to nerf OKW and then nerf USF a little to make ost more competitive.

Rifles either start with veterancy commander,going to vet far sooner than grens.
Or get 1919 which will laugh at grenadiers even with lmgs.
Or get paras which will again laugh at grens while reinforcing at 28 mp kappa.

Not even bringing in light vehicle,or us one shotting options like motor/pack howie and sherman which ost don't have access to till tiger(which still can't one shot unless freak)

Just no. Go play some 1v1s and show many how many times EVEN with Elite Rifles the US player beats Grens to Vet 3. You wont see many. Because as I said Vet 2 doesnt help propel them to Vet 3. It just makes them easier to keep alive. BARs arent as drastic at a DPS change as LMGs are. And with the XP pool of rifles being bigger.

In fact I would venture a bet that Infantry Company Rifles with LMGs will probably get to Vet 3 faster then Elite Rifles with BARs...

You point out Legit problems with the faction as a whole:

Tech too expensive
MG42 lackluster
Early USF light vehicles
Free Officers (initially but hey they cost you in the long run)

But your answer is to buff Grens? Thats like saying OMG BUFF CONSCRIPTS BECAUSE OBERS!!!

Grens do not struggle nearly as hard against Rifles as Rifles have to struggle against Obers or Falls. And yet USF can beat OKW.

So I think your expectation would be Grens to be equal to more expensive Riflemen? Poor Conscripts being just completely clowned not just out-scaled like crazy.

That doesn't sound too reasonable. You are treating a symptom and not the problem.

If you could get out a P4 or Ostwind or Stug faster and for less and the Jackson didnt just plain erase them, then you can support Grens. If the MG42 worked better then Infantry Spam could more easily punished. But reading your arguements it seems you want all of the above which would IMHO make Ost rather OP.

They're fine, don't expect them to be shock troops. They're not units you want to make on all maps and against all matchups, just like you don't really want thompson paras on langres.



OKW and USF tech costs need fixing. And by fixing I mean they need to go up. Soviet and Ostheer tech costs are very similar, soviets just have more choice on skipping stuff.

Ostheer tech costs should be changed so buildings are the expensive part and the tiering costs are low, so skipping buildings would actually make sense. But don't pretend that ostheer T3 wouldn't already be viable.

I don't and they still suck.At 50 MP more shocks get 1.5 armor compared to this poor 1.13 recieved accuracy.They get 6 men,smoke for approach,35 reinforce cost to crippling 40 at 4men.Also pzgres are prone to 1 shot,unlike shocks.Pzgrens can't cut it as lategame advanced inf to help grens which is a serious problem for ost vs elite inf(especially in higher game modes).Against paras and shocks.Paras at 6 men and 28 reinforce......Grenadiers can't do anything even with LMGs vs 1919s.You need the totally risky mg42 or 3 grens(2 grens/flamer) to repel the shock .Allies have far easier time wiping these gren squads even with vet as they are 4 men and must stand still to fire,only wiping tool wehr really has is rifle ande and careful player will never fall for it.


On tech costs i am mainly speaking of MP cost disparity between ost and usf earlygame which forces ost to t2 tech for anti-light vehicle option even under severe pressure from rifle while usf gets free units to dogpile ost even more.

Buffing Ost or nerfing USF will mess up the balance between all of the factions. What is needed is to nerf OKW and then nerf USF a little to make ost more competitive.

Yeah like throwing a dog a bone or a scrap.Leave it..just forget the faction.Enjoy ur usf blobs and conspam and okw hate.

Just no. Go play some 1v1s and show many how many times EVEN with Elite Rifles the US player beats Grens to Vet 3. You wont see many. Because as I said Vet 2 doesnt help propel them to Vet 3. It just makes them easier to keep alive. BARs arent as drastic at a DPS change as LMGs are. And with the XP pool of rifles being bigger.

In fact I would venture a bet that Infantry Company Rifles with LMGs will probably get to Vet 3 faster then Elite Rifles with BARs...

You point out Legit problems with the faction as a whole:

Tech too expensive
MG42 lackluster
Early USF light vehicles
Free Officers (initially but hey they cost you in the long run)

But your answer is to buff Grens? Thats like saying OMG BUFF CONSCRIPTS BECAUSE OBERS!!!

Grens do not struggle nearly as hard against Rifles as Rifles have to struggle against Obers or Falls. And yet USF can beat OKW.

So I think your expectation would be Grens to be equal to more expensive Riflemen? Poor Conscripts being just completely clowned not just out-scaled like crazy.

That doesn't sound too reasonable. You are treating a symptom and not the problem.

If you could get out a P4 or Ostwind or Stug faster and for less and the Jackson didnt just plain erase them, then you can support Grens. If the MG42 worked better then Infantry Spam could more easily punished. But reading your arguements it seems you want all of the above which would IMHO make Ost rather OP.

I never said buff grens.I said grens suffering badly atm to rifles.Fix this.I didn't say buff grenadiers as a unit necessarily.What i want and i will be specific.

Competitive tech costs especially early MP to compete with free usf units(they can reduce upkeep i don't give a damn)
Hmg42 spraying bullets instead of popcorn.
Armoured car actually 'armored'-they can increase price if they want.
And an advanced AI option -either fix panzergrenadiers or give an elite infantry call-in or lategame gren/pzgren support commander that can help vs para/1919.
Above do not make ost OP.They make it viable.

slightly increase MG42 suppression and buff Grenadier survivibility.PG sdkfz222 all needs to be looked at.
reduce tech cost for both T3 and expecially T4.Same goes for soviet, reduce tech cost to access both T3 and T4. Call-in rework. Then ostheer will back to its throne again. Both USF and OKW tier cost are cheap and rewarding, relic completely forget about the Vanilla faction.

I never said buff grens.I said grens suffering badly atm to rifles.Fix this.I didn't say buff grenadiers as a unit necessarily.What i want and i will be specific.

Competitive tech costs especially early MP to compete with free usf units(they can reduce upkeep i don't give a damn)
Hmg42 spraying bullets instead of popcorn.
Armoured car actually 'armored'-they can increase price if they want.
And an advanced AI option -either fix panzergrenadiers or give an elite infantry call-in or lategame gren/pzgren support commander that can help vs para/1919.
Above do not make ost OP.They make it viable.

Ok then I just misunderstood. That is reasonable.

maybe some global upgrades for each faction? maybe that would put buffs in areas that need them, so the meta is expanded

who am i kidding, relic hates global upgrades

This was my opinion regarding PGs several months ago. This was also part of my idea that vet1 on vcoh2 needs a rework.

-Vet1 boring useless medkits + (-)15% received accuracy
-Vet2 -20% receive accuracy + (-)25%cooldown

This would make the scaling to vet2 a bit less drastic, increasing a bit survivability early on.

Note: i know that it would mean a bit more extra less received accuracy but it´s not as significant
Vet0 = 0.87 / 1.15±
Vet1 = 0.7395 / 1.35±
Vet2 = 0.5916 (0.6177) / 1.69± (1.62±)

What game modes are you playing and at what ranking? Although Ostheer isn't in the strongest position I don't believe its as weak as you make out. One of the main reasons it wasnt picked much in the 1v1 tourny is because Axis had to pick first, so if they picked Ostheer then everyone would just pick USA but also because of the strong position that OKW is in currently.

If Ostheer gets buffed then OKW needs nerfing a fair bit imo. 3v3 / 4v4 is already pretty stupid as OKW, spam volks and camp until Panthers / King Tigers where as allies in 3v3 / 4v4 feels like an uphill battle for most of the game.

Would you be happy to remove LMG's from grens, but put the lmg in a doctrine and buffs its damage slightly so you are forced into playing 2 or 3 doctrines? Soviets core infantry are pretty poor especially late game and even more so when facing obers.

I don't remember you posting so much about soviet issues when all the weapon profiles changes appeared, where as Ostheer you could just spam Grens and end the game in 10 minutes because soviets had so many issues standing up to them. From a lot of your posts I get the idea you only play Ostheer. If this is the case you should really play the other factions especially Allies to see that the grass isn't always greener.

>has factual statistics showing that statement is not true
>says it anyway

#justcoh2.orgthings

Well there were a lot of threads about USF weak balance. Soviets and OKW are leaders, I think it must say us something,

Not really.

OKW is batshit OP.
Ost struggles against USF.
You need to nerf OKW as hard as it takes, then you'll be able to adjust USF vs ost and it will also allow soviets vs OKW to be a balanced matchup instead of "hold to late game and slaughter everything with red star" scenario.
Sov vs ost matchup is pretty much alright and nothing changed here since WFA start except some soviet minor nerfs.

ALL WFA balance problems start and end with OKW.

maybe you are right.

maybe you are right.

Nah, frankly he is not, as his premises are all wrong to start with. The empirical evidence just does not support any OKW superiority. I loathe playing vs OKW, I do not even really enjoy playing with them anymore, but it is fairly well balanced against both US and Sovs in 1v1/2v2. Anything above obviously being a different story. Still, the proof is in the pudding and has been presented in this very thread.