Yay or Nay: Bind Call-In Tanks To Tiers?

This has been discussed for month, they won't take any action about it.

I still say that call-in should be weaker then stock units. Also each faction should have a heavy built in. Would fix the call in meta right there.

I still say that call-in should be weaker then stock units. Also each faction should have a heavy built in. Would fix the call in meta right there.

That wouldn't fix the call-in meta, it would just rename it. The problem would still persist.

There is simply too much "dumb" choice. Get a simple tank or get a much better tank slightly later. In all situations everyone would choose the latter. That is the flaw with commanders (but mainly unit design). In this game, we have units that are straight up better than other similar units. If you wanted to truly fix the call in system, then, for example, you would needs at least one trait for the t34/76 that would make people want to choose it over t34/85's. But since the t34/85 is straight up a tough t34/76, there is no point downgrading, no matter how you change both unit's availability.

Nope.
Problem with call-ins isn't that they don't require teching.

The problem is that teching to default armor cost isn't significantly lower than call-in super tank.
Which is further magnified by that call-in super tank outclassing entire doctrinal army opponent has (assuming that player didn't lose all his units prior to call-in). And hits the field shortly after doctrinal armor has been on the field, not giving enough window for punishing 'tech skipping'.
Further magnified that player can call in multiple super tank units.

Solution:

limit of one super tank at the time
Reduce ridiculous power call-in super tanks have over default units.
Currently default tier units have very little chance of standing up to an army with super call-in.
Thats just wrong

I agree this needs fixing but it Better be restricted to tier 2 for max call ins, or they need to rethink some old commander design. The current OKW + Wehrmacht powerhouse fuel strategy in 2's and up case and point.

OKW player,

Call in conversion truck begin immediate Conversion to fuel

Call in Flak set up on Fuel point

Wehrmacht Player,

Use the Muni/Fuel drop Commander

Build 1 Fuel point

Let OKW obtain majority of fuel from crates

15 Min KT before your tiered call in system gives a soviet player a fighting chance. GG. The fuel strategy needs to be evaluated, planes need to fly over the allied base sector and slower as we don't get the free AA base defense, so guaranteed first drop will make it. That or let the lend lease fuel not fly over the base of the axis anymore (which I know there would be resistance too, funnily enough).

Frankly we have been waiting while for something on this matter and Relic hinted at it long ago. My frustration is rooted in that, I support this community but the elite inner circle thing has me at the end of my tether. I payed my share, I've made art projects, encouraged others to do the same and I think all of us should know whats in the pipes at this point. Unless they are dropping the most monster patch since D-Day Patched Nazi-Europe 1.0 OS into Freedom Filled Pile of Rubble 1.1, I must admit again that I'm not pleased with the community communication I (and we) were promised awhile back.

Yes I sighed a big rage type sigh of relief after finishing that. I do believe others are in a similar boat.

Swiss.

My observations on this recurring issue are that people are bringing multiple perspectives on this and that there are different problems involved; accordingly they need different solutions.


1) "COH limited heavy tanks to one per player so COH2 should too"


Solution:

Look at me, I am playing the world's smallest Balalaika


2) People in 4v4 are having Bad Wrong Fun (TM) with multiple heavy tanks and this must be stopped

Solution:

My balalaika is now backed by the world's smallest Red Army Choir


3) OKH T4 is too expensive so Panthers are not viable in 1v1 and in any case too specialised as AT. Further T3 does not have punch against Soviet late game. So most people just stall for Tigers

OKH core is however perfectly playable and viable


Solution:

This a matter of gently tweaking pricing, balancing and timing within OKH. There are lot of ways this could be done. Tigers could be put back further, Panthers made cheaper and given better AI, or Relic could implicitly acknowledge that T4 is not for 1v1 and buff T3 accordingly


4) In theory Soviets are designed to go T1 or T2 then T3 or T4 and supplement with call ins, but that's not what happens

Soviet T3 and T4 are considered to basically suck so people don't build them, call in tanks are generally better and more efficient so that is what we see. It also means that those Soviet commanders that don't have call in tanks are considered sub-par and rarely see use so the meta game is somewhat restricted.

Solution:

So long as Soviet core isn't believed to be very good, people aren't going to waste mp and fuel building the units from them. Forcing them to get a late tier building up first before certain call ins will not delay the first call in on the field. If anything it will be sooner because of the CP bonus from building the building.



This a core problem with the faction design:

If the Soviets are supposed to rely on call-ins then the commanders without are implicitly sub-par and need to be fixed.

If the Soviets are not supposed to rely on call-ins then playing a commander without them shouldn't feel like playing with one hand behind your back


Costs and timings can be messed around with as much as one likes, but without a clear idea of what the Soviets are supposed to be and commanders designed accordingly this problem will never go away

Options that have been put forward:

Fuel Upkeep

Callins tied to teching


Options that have been tried before:

Call-Ins raised to higher tier.
This was done, and now it is fairly uncommon to do straight con spam into call ins. There is no reason it could be done again.

However, people who want to wait for call ins still will; it just gives a wider window for the use of other tanks

Options that I have not yet seen:

Radically increase the cool down on call ins, especially if units of that type are already on the field

another part of the issue that hasn't been raised is tech timings. there was a big patch, something like 6 months ago, that pushed the tech timings back quite a ways to make the early game more interesting. it didn't really do anything for the med to heavy tank transition but it helped light vehicles a fair bit.

then we got WFA. fucking OKW can tech to t3 in under 5 minutes. they won't be able to produce anything at that point due to fuel but they are there. with most of the fuel on the map locked down and by producing limited units they can do it almost as soon as the second truck hits the field. close to ideal situation for OKW there but it's still possible.

US is slightly slower as their teching costs a little more fuel and they're mp starved but they can still get a major out easily in under 6 or 7 minutes.

this means that the more powerful medium tanks can hit the field pretty quickly. now all factions (except usf?) get cps from the teching process so they can get the medium callin tanks about the same time they could otherwise build them. the heavier tanks take a while longer but other purchases increase cps and reduce available resources so you still end up with roughly the right amount of resources at roughly the same amount of time and it still happens in the first 15-20 minutes. in a 30-45 minute game, which often happens in team games, you end up with heavy tanks for half to two thirds of the game, which is a long time.

Nay

Heavy tanks(including KT)-one at a time.E8 and t-34/85 11 cp.Problem solved.Stock tanks can operate for quite a bit of time then.No hordes OF IS-2 OR TIGER SIMPLY BULLDOZING FORWARD.

remove schreck efficiency at long range and soviet t3 will be amazing.

relying on call in tanks will be stupid when you can get t34s earlier and do much more with them rather than being schreck bait as they are now.

KT should be doctrinal as okw already has panthers. or even better, try to fit okw pz4 ausf Js into the core units and maybe take panthers out.