Mark Target

or they could mark target and then fail to pen on all shots. RNG fun.

or they could mark target and then fail to pen on all shots. RNG fun.

so giving it +pen would help to reduce that kind of fun and make a lot of vehicles/AT meassures a lot more reliable

Not sure it should receive much decrease because it is doctrinal and not completely un/counter able however it should be more on penetration side IMO.

Also, why doesn't anyone mention the IS2 for soviets. I love that thing especially with shock rifle which gives great artillery and shocks.
IS2 will beat Tiger heads up not to mention great mobility compared to other heavy tanks.

really? p4: 640hp * 0.7 = 448 theoretical hp with mark target. thats 3 hits instead of 4 with every 160 dmg weapon (shermans, t34s, su85 etc). its 2 shots instead of 3 with 240 dmg (isu, m36)

and thats the problem. while penetration would enable you to score more hits that actually penetrate. dmg increase simply negates a huge potion of the vehicles HP, which imo doesnt belong in a game, where unit preservation is such a big deal.

a simple example: if 3 x 160 dmg vehicles shoot at and penetrate a p4, that is marked, itll die instantly. usually youd have 1 more hit to escape, which gets denied by mark target. no other ability ingame reduces a vehicles theoretical hp like that. this gets worse since crits are tied to hp and hence occur more often on vehicles that have been marked (in this example the 3rd shoot could crit main gun/heavy/abandon instead of the 4th, too)

edit: to mention a few other (actually used) vehicles:

Panther (both factions) 800 -> 560 hp
Tiger 1040 -> 728 hp (3 jackson shots and a scratch on the paint and its gone... instead of 5)'
Luchs puma Stugs 400 -> 280
King/Jagd/Sturm(for the fun of it) 1280 - 896

if you dont see why thats wrong, i cant help it. everyone is aguing "lol if you lose a marked vehicle its cause you didnt react, etc" when waht mark target does is reduce the time you have to react at all.

again: 3 sources with 160dmg cause damage to a p4 that is maked = death
with pen-increase instead of dmg-increase they would have to reload for 1 additional hit and actually give the p4 a chance to react

Ok it is pointless to mark target a vehicle that is in a slugging match with you because it can just reverse out. People only use mark target on tanks that have overextended or have engine damage/immobilized/surrounded. It is silly that you are complaining about an ability to makes one react. I guess we should nerf katyusha even though you can hear the damn rockets coming and have to, god forbid, REACT!


I appreciate you putting down those numbers, but you make it seem like tanks are getting instantly vaporized when they get mark targeted. Now if it gets smashed by a B4 or is completely surrounded with multiple tanks shooting its rear, then yes, it would die fast. I am saying this is not a common occurrence and i have played about 250 3v3 and 4v4 games.

Ok it is pointless to mark target a vehicle that is in a slugging match with you because it can just reverse out. People only use mark target on tanks that have overextended or have engine damage/immobilized/surrounded. It is silly that you are complaining about an ability to makes one react. I guess we should nerf katyusha even though you can hear the damn rockets coming and have to, god forbid, REACT!

I appreciate you putting down those numbers, but you make it seem like tanks are getting instantly vaporized when they get mark targeted. Now if it gets smashed by a B4 or is completely surrounded with multiple tanks shooting its rear, then yes, it would die fast. I am saying this is not a common occurrence and i have played about 250 3v3 and 4v4 games.

with the difference being that you can drive out of a barrage/off map ability (react) and that they dont lower your theoretical hp... they just deal dmg... you cant re-target with barrages... you can chase a marked vehicle though... and again its not i that its forcing you to react which bothers me. its that it inevitably shortens your reaction time by recducing the survivability of the vehicle which is unique in coh2 and doesnt feel right to me

edit: no. ofc its not as bad as that. but needing 3/4 of penetrating shots drastically reduces the time one has to react. if its 3 instead of 4 shots that basically means you got 1 less aimtime/reload cycle to react (when fighting 1v1 or when getting hit by 3 sources within less than a second or two)

with the difference being that you can drive out of a barrage/off map ability (react) and that they dont lower your theoretical hp... they just deal dmg... you cant re-target with barrages... you can chase a marked vehicle though...

Yes you can chase it, but that would mean going through other tanks and support weapons of the opponent's army. If you are isolated or the enemy has swaths of tanks coming to you, then i doubt mark target is the issue at hand.

and again its not i that its forcing you to react which bothers me. its that it inevitably shortens your reaction time by recducing the survivability of the vehicle which is unique in coh2 and doesnt feel right to me

Yes that is a reasonable concern and i am against units going *poof* magically as well. However, think the state of the game (in 2v2 and higher, as the change said it was too powerful at those levels) requires such an ability. IMO i don't think it is overpowered. It is alost a necessary ability considering how strong Panthers, KTs, and Jagdtigers are

edit: no. ofc its not as bad as that. but needing 3/4 of penetrating shots drastically reduces the time one has to react. if its 3 instead of 4 shots that basically means you got 1 less aimtime/reload cycle to react (when fighting 1v1 or when getting hit by 3 sources within less than a second or two)

It would be interesting to test Mark Target if it got changed to penetration bonus instead of damage. I guess that is what the open beta is for. Let's hope that Relic continues to use that in the future.

Yes you can chase it, but that would mean going through other tanks and support weapons of the opponent's army. If you are isolated or the enemy has swaths of tanks coming to you, then i doubt mark target is the issue at hand.

ofc... if you get rushed by 4 kts and you only got t34s and maybe some zis's itwont do much. but then most units/abilities wont do well when facing an overwhelming amount of enemies

my point is: the way it works doesnt seem to fit the concept of unit preservation. at least thats what i think. penetration would still make a target more vulerable of course, yet it wont reduce the amount of dmg its takes to kill it. i find it weird that ppl dont prefer increased pen since it would increase the terrible pen-chances most allied units have against late game super units. many seem to prefere unreliable (speak RNG-depended) but higher dmg...

It would be interesting to test Mark Target if it got changed to penetration bonus instead of damage. I guess that is what the open beta is for. Let's hope that Relic continues to use that in the future.

yeah. i do agree it seems preferable to me now, but it would need some testing for sure. could be its not doing anything i would like it to do (like make the soviet core units more efficient in attacking highly armored targets)


EDIT: i just noticed your signature. the fuck? i am german and i consider this HIGHLY disturbing and untrue... i love playing axis, too... but that is some seriously delusional bullshit.
that guy needs to be "politically reeducated" :KimJung-unSmile:

i don't get why proponents of current mark target would resist to increased pen (i think it should be significant enough for allied medium tanks to have reliable chance to pen super heavies) instead of damage.

right now, even with mark target, it is still rock paper scissor with pen chances, therefore if you are unlucky, you won't do "mark target ability" worth of damage to more heavily armoured vehicles which are most problematic in big games.

if it is increased pen, it will be less random with roughly same amount of damage capability due to more penetrated shots.

to be honest, i think replacing damage buff with reasonable amount of pen buff would be a buff to mark target.

edit: only thing i can think of as a nerf is mark target with b4. oh well. b4 does stupendous damage anyway.

The amount of polemics in this thread is too damn high.
The JT being broken (and it most certainly is) doesn't make other things right.

#failedmyself

so giving it +pen would help to reduce that kind of fun and make a lot of vehicles/AT meassures a lot more reliable

yup

This ability seems too strong to me. You get a massive damage boost against targets the axis relies very heavily on and it synergizes way too well with the P-47 and B4. Using this ability it seems way too easy to just coordinate a few button clicks amongst your team and take out a KT or Jagdtiger.

I suggest changing it from a received damage boost to armor reduction. I'd also shorten the duration or at least make it end when the plane gets shot down.

Didn't read the complete thread, but there was some discussion a while back. Changing it to increased accuracy to the target and a small penetration boost was the outcome of that as well as reliably having vision on it until the plane gets shot down, if I recall correctly.

+ %dmg messes with the damage numbers on units and makes it easier to oneshot vehicles, as well as synergizing too well with other offmaps.

+ %accuracy alone has too little impact on the heavies, like KT / JT / Tiger, as those usually get hit anyways. It still helps to a degree for flanking / circling them as you fire on the move.

+ %pen alone would have too good of a synergy with the USF AT (cause it stacks with their abilities) and the ISU.

snip

No longer stacks multiple times
Reduced bonus damage modifier from 50% to 35%

160*1.35 = 216
216 * 3 = 648

You kill a P4 in 3 hits instead of 4.

#rekt

No longer stacks multiple times
Reduced bonus damage modifier from 50% to 35%

160*1.35 = 216
216 * 3 = 648

You kill a P4 in 3 hits instead of 4.

#rekt

Whoopsy, I got the wrong number from this post.

what do you mean its to strong? It was already nerfed and it only gives a 30% increase in damage to axis armor. I'm still waiting on the t34/85 is op thread at this point.

My bad. Will edit.

Really?

Sommenbjorn shouted at me for marking a target he was going to precision strike.

You know why?

Because the enemy saw the plane coming and moved his ubertank.

Mark Target is warning for Axis rather than help for B4.

This thread is pure madness, mark target is op. I want to know what crack you people are smoking

Didn't read the complete thread, but there was some discussion a while back. Changing it to increased accuracy to the target and a small penetration boost was the outcome of that as well as reliably having vision on it until the plane gets shot down, if I recall correctly.

+ %dmg messes with the damage numbers on units and makes it easier to oneshot vehicles, as well as synergizing too well with other offmaps.

+ %accuracy alone has too little impact on the heavies, like KT / JT / Tiger, as those usually get hit anyways. It still helps to a degree for flanking / circling them as you fire on the move.

+ %pen alone would have too good of a synergy with the USF AT (cause it stacks with their abilities) and the ISU.

Other possibilities include:

+ Boost ROF against that target

+ Increase chance of crits

Other possibilities include:

+ Boost ROF against that target

+ Increase chance of crits

i do not like either of them. more ROF (similar to accuracy) wont help the stock units to fight heavy armor that much and the last thing we need is more RNG (vehicle crits)

i would really like to try the +pen instead of +damage *looking at cruzzi, whistling*

We need Cruzz expertise on this matter!!!