Shreks need long range accuracy nerf
9 Nov 2014, 22:55 PM
#21
Posts: 21
Agreed!!! It's good to know I'm not the only one that thinks schrecks are too good in this game.
9 Nov 2014, 23:17 PM
#22
Posts: 655
Permanently Banned
Wut?
So you're gonna tell me you've never seen a schreck'd pgren squad instagib a few bunched models before?
A Fallen Scrub
9 Nov 2014, 23:42 PM
#23
Posts: 1026
Pretty sure I had 3 models who had clumped up together get gibbed by a shrek the other day. Wiped the squad, lol. Hardly representative of their general performance though.
9 Nov 2014, 23:49 PM
#24
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
+1
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10 Nov 2014, 00:01 AM
#25
Posts: 79
I've given this some thought while messing around with mod tools. I am wary to reduce the accuracy of shrecks at long range, because I find light vehicles are effective enough as is early on. One solution I was toying with was making the penetration drop off drastically at long range, reducing the effectiveness of the late game blob, while maintaining the effectiveness of the emergency shreck purchased in response to the light vehicle rush.
10 Nov 2014, 00:09 AM
#26
1 
Posts: 764
...was making the penetration drop off drastically at long range, reducing the effectiveness of the late game blob, while maintaining the effectiveness of the emergency shreck purchased in response to the light vehicle rush.
That idea i'd like. Though i would go for pen & acc nerf on long ranges.
Keeps them useful, but you can actually outmicro them properly with "weak" medium tanks, which isn't the case sometimes.
Hope you guys (and gals) also consider a cost reduction for Volks then (and about the impact on PGrens).
10 Nov 2014, 00:48 AM
#27
Posts: 4928
Panzerschrecks are actually less likely to hit an Infantry unit than an Anti-Tank gun. The accuracy isn't what causes blobbing either, it's a compound problem. Panzerschrecks on a cheap and numerous unit like Volksgrenadiers cause them to vet up quickly, while killing them is more difficult due to numbers, and the ones you do kill are cheap to reinforce. Throw in Obersoldaten to pick up the pace, and you have a blob that can counter vehicles and infantry at the same time.
Lastly, the Raketenwerfer has a short range, weak crew, no crew cover, and a 1 second aim time, compared to the Pak 40 which has good range, a weak crew, heavy cover, and fires almost instantly. The Raketenwerfer is only really useful in buildings. This means players cannot rely on the Raketenwerfer and are forced to make Volks with Panzerschrecks as their main AT, which of course leads to blobbing them up.
Remove Panzerschrecks from Volks and make the Raketenwerfer worthwhile, and OKW will be much less blobby-bobby.
Lastly, the Raketenwerfer has a short range, weak crew, no crew cover, and a 1 second aim time, compared to the Pak 40 which has good range, a weak crew, heavy cover, and fires almost instantly. The Raketenwerfer is only really useful in buildings. This means players cannot rely on the Raketenwerfer and are forced to make Volks with Panzerschrecks as their main AT, which of course leads to blobbing them up.
Remove Panzerschrecks from Volks and make the Raketenwerfer worthwhile, and OKW will be much less blobby-bobby.
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10 Nov 2014, 02:05 AM
#28
Posts: 2779
So you're gonna tell me you've never seen a schreck'd pgren squad instagib a few bunched models before?
I saw 57mm instagib a squad of Ober too
10 Nov 2014, 02:19 AM
#29
Posts: 1225
Panzerschrecks are actually less likely to hit an Infantry unit than an Anti-Tank gun. The accuracy isn't what causes blobbing either, it's a compound problem. Panzerschrecks on a cheap and numerous unit like Volksgrenadiers cause them to vet up quickly, while killing them is more difficult due to numbers, and the ones you do kill are cheap to reinforce. Throw in Obersoldaten to pick up the pace, and you have a blob that can counter vehicles and infantry at the same time.
Lastly, the Raketenwerfer has a short range, weak crew, no crew cover, and a 1 second aim time, compared to the Pak 40 which has good range, a weak crew, heavy cover, and fires almost instantly. The Raketenwerfer is only really useful in buildings. This means players cannot rely on the Raketenwerfer and are forced to make Volks with Panzerschrecks as their main AT, which of course leads to blobbing them up.
Remove Panzerschrecks from Volks and make the Raketenwerfer worthwhile, and OKW will be much less blobby-bobby.
Which on the other hand would instantly make Volks worthless. Volks live, die and gain vet by their Schreck...
10 Nov 2014, 02:24 AM
#30
5 Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2
I fully agree that shrecks are way to effective, but any nerf to the OKW shreck needs to be paired with a buff to the raketen. The main reason everyone spams shrecks as OKW is because the raketen is generally a steaming pile of crap unless its in a building.
10 Nov 2014, 02:29 AM
#31
Posts: 135
^ +1,on another note that's exactly what expected what sierra to post, 
10 Nov 2014, 02:39 AM
#32
Posts: 4928
Which on the other hand would instantly make Volks worthless. Volks live, die and gain vet by their Schreck...
Ideally they'd be able to upgrade to some automatic weapons strong enough to keep them in the game, but not take the role of assault troops. Just like real Volksgrenadiers
(Ideally, so would Conscripts...)
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10 Nov 2014, 03:25 AM
#33
9 
Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20
Shrecks are not the problem, just the way OKW gets access to them. Giving the basic infantry volks just promotes blobbing them. Panzershrecks on PGrens are fine, they are an dedicated AT squad.
10 Nov 2014, 03:28 AM
#34
5 Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2
Shrecks are not the problem, just the way OKW gets access to them. Giving the basic infantry volks just promotes blobbing them. Panzershrecks on PGrens are fine, they are an dedicated AT squad.
I agree, but I don't think that is going to change short of a pretty significant rework to the OKW.
10 Nov 2014, 03:34 AM
#35
Posts: 824
I fully agree that shrecks are way to effective, but any nerf to the OKW shreck needs to be paired with a buff to the raketen. The main reason everyone spams shrecks as OKW is because the raketen is generally a steaming pile of crap unless its in a building.
And with buildings currently being steaming piles of crap, that just leaves the OKW with Shreks. :/
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11 Nov 2014, 05:14 AM
#36
Posts: 503
i suggested it once, brought it up many times and was constantly shafted to the side, but yes. this this and this, it promotes blobby play, no brainer upgrades and insane vet opportunities. if mediums had a chance to wreck stuff at range, it would be a much more balanced game, rather than every single game is all about, blob schrecks, blob obers into schrecks,stuka for support teams, rape everything until JT/KT and end game.
it really takes a good katyusha hit though, to really destroy the blob. reduce schreck effective range.
Thankfully Katyusha can be gotten quickly and fire multiple volleys in one barrage to make blobs an endangered species (as it should be just wish Wehr could get Panzerwerfer to be better so it could actually counter shock and rifle blobs also).
Back to topic, yes PG schreck should be toned down but keep in mind they are also risky because one Sherman or 34/76 round can easily wipe most or all the squad and then schrecks are lying around. Squad wipe means 340 MP for new squad plus 120 muni of you can't recover schreck and if 3 models are wiped then need 120 MP to reinforce.
Buff their AI at short range and a little bit on mid range so they have more relevance as close range assault troops while making their Schrecks less potent until they get close to tanks.
11 Nov 2014, 05:28 AM
#37
Posts: 954
PG seems too lackluster, I think they need a recived accuracy reduction and more love, or single shreck upgrade, making it elite troop for wehr, if necessary increase its tier.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
11 Nov 2014, 05:47 AM
#38
Posts: 1158
I thought they were recently given a received accuracy buff
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
11 Nov 2014, 06:33 AM
#39
Posts: 503
PG seems too lackluster, I think they need a recived accuracy reduction and more love, or single shreck upgrade, making it elite troop for wehr, if necessary increase its tier.
Agreed they cost 40 MP per model and are small squad size and their only grenade is easy to dodge and so expensive. Plus they have to get close to deal damage which is what USF and SU shock/penal/con with PPSH excel at.
They should be like assault PGs of PE on vCOH, very expensive to replace but melt non elite infantry and weapons teams if yet get close. Then you can leave their received accuracy and health the same as now. Would still be a risky unit and very vulnerable to MP drain from snipers and explosives but it would give the Wehr a close quarters combat infantry unit that actually does the job somewhat well.
11 Nov 2014, 06:47 AM
#40
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
I like the idea of bazookas and panzershrecks being meh at long range, this would definitely make them weapons used to support AT guns, not replace them. I also think it may be worth it to increase the range of PTRS rifles as well so that they have a different role. The PTRS should be used to hardcounter light vehicles, while it keeps it terrible penetration to give the other two AT weapons a fair tradeoff.
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