Are Tigers Necessary?
Posts: 2070
All of my buddies tell me to pick a commander with a Tiger tank in it. However, I find that I can get away with just going combined arms + teching straight to Panther, which I think is a monster tank.
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Posts: 412
Saying that, vs USF, Ostheer t3 does fine with Pak support.
Against Soviets, your probably gonna face call in's. So your gonna need to be in a good position and make your tech really count for that gap between when your 1st tank hits the field and they get the CP'S for a call in. Easier said then done, as stalling out ain't that difficult usually.
Ostheer T1+T2 and stall out to Tiger is a pretty safe way to go.
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
T1, T2, T4 is perfectly viable
Indeed I would recommend you do that, possibly including some T3 at some point so you can see what they are like.
This is on the grounds that you should know the core before you mess with call ins
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I don't play much of the smaller games, but there there is less fuel and less time, so it will take you longer to tech up to Panthers, you won't be able to build as many, and you won't get as much use out of them as you would in 4v4
4v4 though you will can get your first panther out way before the 11CP mark you need for Tigers, especially if you are playing with OKW.
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Tigers are very good though, they are a sturdy, useful, generalist tank and the skills you learn from using other tanks will apply.
Panthers are not so hot versus infantry, and especially Zis and are best viewed as a tough tank destroyer rather than a tank per se.
The other great thing abut Tigers, is that they are in several doctrines and all of them are good. IS2s are only in two doctrines and one of those is not so hot.
Tigers however are in:
Assault Support
Lightning War
Mech Assault
Spearhead
All of which have something going for them, you could equip 3 of those doctrines and nothing else and have a good choice of options
As noted above though, I'd suggest you start out without call ins, let us know what commanders you have and we can make suggestions.
I honestly don't think the Germans have a bad commander in 4v4, it's a question of what fits your style
Posts: 2070
I feel that Ostheer has a bunch of viable commanders for 4v4, since their nondoctrinal units are quite effective.
Posts: 2070
Blitzkrieg
Lightning War
Mobile Defense
Spearhead
storm
Festung Armor
Festung Support
Fortified Armor
German Infantry
German Mechanized
Jaeger Armor
Joint Operations
Posts: 655
Permanently BannedI admit though, Spearhead is easily my favorite Ostheer commander, just because the Mortar HT provides such a great compliment to LMG Grens, making clearing multiple maxims from an area much easier, in addition to the get-out-of-jail-free card that Panzer Tactician provides. Honestly, with Spearhead, Tiger is just icing on the cake, I'd love a commander that has Panzer Tactician and the Mortar HT, but with something other than a Tiger as a call-in/other doctrinal ability.
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
Blitzkrieg
Very good vanilla option to learn the faction and one I am using a lot myself.
Anything with Panzer Tactician gives you the get out of jail free card for your armour, combine with Blitz and you see why Allied players get frustrated with Axis armour and why mines are important
Recon is good, especially in team games and it is something that OKW totally lack
Command Tank will stack with your panthers and provide a little better AI
37mm strafe is a handy cap stone
Lightning War
G43s will be a revelation
Tigers are cool as noted
Mobile Defense
Pass on this for now, it can supplement T4 build, but often you will find Panthers out before Pumas so it's a bit meh for team games and changes too much from core
Spearhead
The Mortor Half Track is excellent for urban battles and versus static Soviet T2 play
Panzer Tactician + Recon + Tigers + Bombs
There is nothing in there that you won't want
Storm
Bit meh, avoid
Festung Armour
Has smoke and Command Tank.
Hull down can be useful but is static
PAK 43 is not so hot in team games
Railway Artillery is powerful but often random and easy to dodge
Festung Support
Has the MHT, and call in smoke
On map artillery not so hot
Sector Artillery is apparently very good
Fortified Armour
Is good even without the elephant, which now doesn't do anything that a Jagdtiger cannot
However, you don't have to call in the elephant and the rest of it is handy without it; plus it is nice to have the option.
Jaeger Armour
Has in built counters to the things that counter elephants, ie: On Map Artillery.
Not to be sneezed at against Soviets who are using B4s for example
German Infantry
Go with this is you want heavy infantry play. The Artillery Officer goesvery well with mortors and even better with Panzerwerfers
Lacks recon however
Mechanised
A collection of mediocre abilities that are available in better commanders and one that is bascially rubbish
Joint Operations
This is vanilla, but that's fine, vanilla is classic
You can get good mileage out of Recon + Artillery Barrage
Artillery Officer can be very good, the other two abilities give you options
It doesn't have Panzer Tactician, but that will at least ensure you don't use it as a crutch
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I would certainly take Blitzkrieg, then probably Joint Operations, rest as to what fits your style
Edit:
Jaeger Armour is the only thing there with Recon + Bomb Strike to counter B4s, so you should consider having the option just for that
Other commanders have recon + strike, but their strike will not be as good versus Artillery
Posts: 29
but 1vs1 it is diffrent here, i personally only use Tiger docs cause you can use them on any map and the Tiger has certain advantages 1vs1 but be aware i dont have any of the dlc commanders, they can change things listed below:
1: the Tiger deals with infantry, i find in 1vs1 enemy infantry is your main problem, especially against USF if he has a map were he can defend easily and you are forced to attack cause you dont have many vps left (best example is road to kharkov),
2: he costs less then most other Breakthrough weapons, because most time you need t3 and a p4 before you can get the fancy t4 stuff so it would delay your breakthrough options even further which will cost you the game or give the enemy time to get guns on the field which will make your Panther to an endangered species
3: you will get a Tiger faster then a Panther and an addiotional Pwerfer and time in 1vs1 is very important, you dont have any of it to waste
also dont get an brumm, 80% of the time its not cost effective and its ineffective against infantry (too low rof) his main job is breaking fortifications which it does very good and if you use it against Inf use attack ground to get atleast some deadly effects, it wont hit anything with auto fire (same goes for the ISU)
4: it has a effect on the morale on many players the will often focus it and have a greed to kill it, which you can use to lure them into traps like at guns, minefields etc. especially they will get blind for other things sometimes,
5: its also easier to watch and keep alive then 2-3 units for the same role, also if you see an AT gun you cant capture destroy it
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Posts: 131
When your facing late game Soviets with Vet2-3 Shocktroops, that just bull rush all your infantry units...youll be grateful you can throw a tiger in their face.
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Posts: 269
The tiger will turn the tide quick and have some durability against the inevitable IS2 or T34/85 double call in. If you rush to tier 3 you'll only have one panzer IV against their 2 t34's or IS2 because the soviets had so much map control early game. It can be pretty tough to keep it alive even with paks and panzer grenadiers and it is hard to push forward with it. A tiger can push frontally against double AT guns and have most shots bounce off its front armor. It can beat any AT gun one on one without much damage.
Against Americans that do the same thing, the USF has worse AT and worse armor and has more trouble dealing with a tiger. Only a P47 rocket strike or m10/m36 can take on a tiger and the m10 and m36 is really vulnerable to paks and shreks (though it's gun can actually penetrate well against Tiger frontal armor). Americans won't bother to get an m10 first because its so useless against Infantry.
That being said, you don't need a tiger but it's really useful against the blob or mass tier 1 strat.
Posts: 964 | Subs: 11
But in random team games its hard to make this team coordination work well but potentially luftwaffe + storm doc should become more popular in AT matches with the coming patch.
Early-mid game OKW benefit more from fuel drops than fuel caches. If OKW go fortication doc and use stalling tactics with pak43/volks shreaks + pak40 from OH to defend one fuel point a panther/KT rush should be a rather safe build. Especially with the coming nerf to ISU which indirectly buff KT and Pak43 (no IL-2 bombs from ISU doctrines to counter pak43 and luftwaffe/storm hard counter B4 with stuka bomb).
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Posts: 444
Against Americans that do the same thing, the USF has worse AT and worse armor and has more trouble dealing with a tiger. Only a P47 rocket strike or m10/m36 can take on a tiger
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US has the best non doctrinal tank destroyer in game, you sir are not aware of jacksons 2 of them can kill a tiger in seconds usually in 2v2 3 jacksons are best they will eat all armor none of their shots fail to penetrate as far as i have seen(i use 3 armor pen bulletins may be that gives it an edge).
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