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COH2 Volks & Grens, are so trashy in first 6 mins

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Porygon
14 Oct 2014, 05:15 AM
#1
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

I don't mind if they make them more expensive, but PLEASE, give us some squad can actually shoot.

You can say Grens having LMG or Volks after vet 3 or what, afterward making them viable, but shit dude, they are T1 infantry, not T2 infantry, why should they suck in T1 stage?

Rifles share the similar stupidity, they totally rape in T1 stage but after 8 mins, they are TRASH.

Why can't they just copy Volks and Rifles interaction from COH1? It feels 10X more balance than current shit.

:ot: Went back laddering in COH1, top 20 Wehr in 2 days, trustworthy Volks, Grens and MG42 making their COH2 counterpart, A JOKE :/
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Katitof
14 Oct 2014, 05:26 AM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

And cons are trashy through first 2 hours of the game(or whatever longest game was).

I suppose this is why you have Kubels/HMG42 in the same building as volks/grens.

If you enjoy spamming one type of unit, play allies.

Also, vcoh volks cost was 10 more then rifles.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Porygon
14 Oct 2014, 06:32 AM
#3
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 05:26 AMKatitof
And cons are trashy through first 2 hours of the game(or whatever longest game was).

I suppose this is why you have Kubels/HMG42 in the same building as volks/grens.

If you enjoy spamming one type of unit, play allies.

Also, vcoh volks cost was 10 more then rifles.


COH1 Wehr is the most combined arms faction, don't you know? <444>_<444>
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Hagen67483
14 Oct 2014, 06:48 AM
#4
avatar of Hagen67483

Posts: 65

If I’m not mistaken the MP upkeep of USF troops in COH1 was very high until you got the upgrades in the supply building. That means the WM had could afford to pay more for its troops because they paid less upkeep.
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Bananenheld
14 Oct 2014, 06:55 AM
#5
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 06:48 AMHagen67483
If I’m not mistaken the MP upkeep of USF troops in COH1 was very high until you got the upgrades in the supply building. That means the WM had could afford to pay more for its troops because they paid less upkeep.
coh1 just had the right mix of ally early game favor and axis lategame favor, but both beeing able to win at every stage of the game
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JohnnyB
14 Oct 2014, 07:03 AM
#6
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Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

The fact is that ostheer grens cannot be played through spam anymore. To be efficient as ostheer in startgame you currently need everything from T1 (except snipers - anyway germna snipers were allways shit).
It's quite riscky for ostheer in startgame, but what's new? Conserve your infantry, and you'll be fine, lose one-two squads and you are doomed. That's the problem actually. For soviets, the penalty is not that serious. But this problem persists since COH2 was launched.
On OKW side though, you are using volks+sturms+kubel anyway, so the fact that volks are a little shitty it doesn't really bother me.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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dasheepeh
14 Oct 2014, 07:03 AM
#7
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Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

b*tch please. really?
servant to the vet 5 königskübel

b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast

fan of the illustrious black prince
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Cruzz
14 Oct 2014, 07:11 AM
#8
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Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 07:03 AMJohnnyB
The fact is that ostheer grens cannot be played through spam anymore. To be efficient as ostheer in startgame you currently need everything from T1 (except snipers - anyway germna snipers were allways shit).
It's quite riscky for ostheer in startgame, but what's new? Conserve your infantry, and you'll be fine, lose one-two squads and you are doomed. That's the problem actually. For soviets, the penalty is not that serious. But this problem persists since COH2 was launched.
On OKW side though, you are using volks+sturms+kubel anyway, so the fact that volks are a little shitty it doesn't really bother me.


I only got to top-10 with both by spamming grens (one MG42 as support at most) and volks (no kubels because I'm lazy and don't want to micro, nobody plays USF anyway), clearly this is totally unworkable :snfPeter:

I'm not sure what crack people are smoking to make them think volks or grens are weak, and I'm not sure I want any either, that stuff is clearly too strong.

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HappyPhace
14 Oct 2014, 07:47 AM
#9
avatar of HappyPhace

Posts: 309

Steps to be esports worthy:

1. Make 4 grens.

2. Upgrade grens with LMGs.

Congratulations you are now esports material. Add a fifth if you want to be super tryhard.
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JohnnyB
14 Oct 2014, 10:46 AM
#10
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 07:11 AMCruzz


I only got to top-10 with both by spamming grens (one MG42 as support at most) and volks (no kubels because I'm lazy and don't want to micro, nobody plays USF anyway), clearly this is totally unworkable :snfPeter:

I'm not sure what crack people are smoking to make them think volks or grens are weak, and I'm not sure I want any either, that stuff is clearly too strong.



I don't know why you think the things you are saying are relevant. I'm sure you can scale to place 10 or whatever in the ladder even if you were allowed to play with just one infantry type, because you are you. And you are representing 2% of COH2 players. For the rest of us, it's not about one infantry type or the other is to weak or to strong (I find Porygon infantry units description quite accurate actualy), it's how you play and combine them. That is why the actual state of volks doesn't bother me even if, as a single unit, they are not strong, not by far.
Frankly, I am only smoking normal cigarettes, I can't give you the brand, because i don't want to make here illegal advertising B-)
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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Katitof
14 Oct 2014, 11:12 AM
#11
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 06:32 AMPorygon


COH1 Wehr is the most combined arms faction, don't you know? <444>_<444>


Its not like coh2 ost isn't you know.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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dasheepeh
14 Oct 2014, 12:16 PM
#12
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 11:12 AMKatitof


Its not like coh2 ost isn't you know.


In fact, i also really enjoy playing Ostheer because they have the biggest combined arms feel.
servant to the vet 5 königskübel

b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast

fan of the illustrious black prince
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AchtAchter
14 Oct 2014, 12:40 PM
#13
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

I actually think they are in a good spot. While being weak in early game, they are better than allies infantry starting from mid game.

Moreover I think allies should have their early game advantage.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu

Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here

Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
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NinjaWJ
14 Oct 2014, 14:05 PM
#14
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Posts: 2070

Sure they may be bad... but once they get vet with schrecks and LMGS, they become beasts



It is only 6 minutes....think of those poor conscripts
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2015, 15:19 PMAlexzandvar
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
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Bryan
14 Oct 2014, 14:06 PM
#15
avatar of Bryan

Posts: 412

Imo Volks and Grens are the strongest core infantry units. Volks due to the OKW vet system and their P.Shreck, they Scale into the late game really well. They also have a decent nade and can build sandbags.

Grens in the early game rely on positioning, they are pretty fragile but have decent firepower. With LMGS, again, they scale really well. They are susceptible to clumping up, which with 4 man squads is their biggest issue. Some maps don't favor Grens either.
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theblitz6794
14 Oct 2014, 14:19 PM
#16
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Posts: 395

AXIS FANBOY THREAD

1. Grens actually rape ass. Use some rifle nades and lmg42.
2. Volks are supposed to suck. OKW is designed to have weak early game. They fit their role as a weak stopgap infantry quite well though, especially with panzershrek and vet
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.

OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
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AchtAchter
14 Oct 2014, 14:23 PM
#17
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 14:19 PMtheblitz6794
AXIS FANBOY THREAD

1. Grens actually rape ass. Use some rifle nades and lmg42.
2. Volks are supposed to suck. OKW is designed to have weak early game. They fit their role as a weak stopgap infantry quite well though, especially with panzershrek and vet


You know he's rank 35 with Ostheer? He knows how to use Grens.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu

Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here

Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
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dasheepeh
14 Oct 2014, 14:24 PM
#18
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 14:19 PMtheblitz6794
AXIS FANBOY THREAD

1. Grens actually rape ass. Use some rifle nades and lmg42.
2. Volks are supposed to suck. OKW is designed to have weak early game. They fit their role as a weak stopgap infantry quite well though, especially with panzershrek and vet


Relic pls fix. OKW has an amazing early game.
servant to the vet 5 königskübel

b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast

fan of the illustrious black prince
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ZombiFrancis
14 Oct 2014, 15:17 PM
#19
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Posts: 2742

Riflemen in vCoH were strong against vCoH volks, and with vet, against grens. With BARs and vet, they surpassed vetted grens.

This dynamic was very interesting. It was also rigid. Wehrmacht vet in vCoH was like that.

In CoH2, all factions get vet the same way (including losing squad members) and they gain an array of gimmicky abilities. Gauging when and how a unit 'scales' is completely up to the course of the game (i.e. RNG/skills). In a manner of speaking, CoH2 is like Opposing Fronts 2, with gameplay being far more reminiscent of the Panzer Elite and British than either of the original factions.

Even Soviets v Ostheer feels more like the Ami v PE slugfests than anything.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
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5trategos
14 Oct 2014, 15:40 PM
#20
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Posts: 449

Factions are not balanced in time which is frustrating but extremely hard to get right. CoH1 was plagued with the same issue for most of its lifetime.

I would argue that it still is too because in the vCoH meta, Wehr are expected to survive on less territory at the start. People just got used to it consider part of the design now.

Back to CoH2, the window where volks and grens are vulnerable is damn small (5-6min).

On the priority list of problems, I would rank this pretty low. I'd rather Relic focus on Romeo's list of game-breaking bugs, call-in meta, etc.
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