COH2 Vanilla armies (x-post from Cynthia)

How many times must we request this change? It would open up so much more strategic depth with one simple change.

It'd help if the T-70 and the SU76 weren't complete balls.



The SU76 hasn't been in a good place since the original beta before Relic completely reshuffled stat tables and generally made tanks more durable and having thicker armor.


The T-70....well, the T-70 had issues with cheese rushes, but that is about it. It still has the issue where it is basically useless ATM.

^^ ^^

With veterancy, the T70 has prying eyes in the Fog of War,surely?

Vet 3 T-70 is like a lighthouse, it's range is pretty insane.

Vet 3 T-70 is like a lighthouse, it's range is pretty insane.

Yeah, same as vet2 222 with spotting scopes and Kubeljesus at vet 1

T70 is more than competent although I would like to see it get a penetration increase to its base stats or at vet 2.

It was, I had a lot of fun with wire fields it could really put blobs in a bad place. Tanks would travel over them at normal speed but not destroy them.

Can we start a movement to get the wire fields back please?!

I miss those. They acted how real barbed wire is supposed to act. Right now, they're just unvaultable fences.

Big fixes should always be the priority.

But to answer the questions:

1. Is there something that you feel is lacking from the COH2 Vanilla army that you usually play?

Yes. The Soviets lack a complete and dynamic army. A strong general purpose infantry unit never materializes without doctrins. Their tiering system lacks strategic depth. The Ostheer, as a result, lack a meaningful dialogue of strategies with their opponents. Currently the Soviets pick their poison and the Ostheer just waits to react accordingly.

2. Is there something WFA armies have that you’d like to see COH2 Vanilla armies gain in the game?

The only thing about the British that I felt was interesting was the Captain's retreat. With the WFA armies both carrying on the British legacy, the only thing I can think of is dynamic retreats.

3. Do you have a specific wish list for your army?

I have only really played the vanilla factions to any extent, but yes.

For the Soviets, a backbone infantry unit, like Guards, out of doctrines and into tier buildings. Likewise for Shock Troops, but as a lategame/t4 infantry unit, to actually provide a level of 'shock; instead of being all too present from 2CPs onward, or nonexistent. Then, T70s and SU-76s need to be timed and/or tiered together. Their roles are greatly diminished in their current placement, but ny wishlist for Soviets consists of a T1>T2 or T3>T4 pattern, with T70s and SU76s in T3.

For the Ostheer, they just need to have StuGs that can come out early and can survive a few tank shells, especially from the front. If StuG3s were core units and StuG4s could absorb a few heavy tank shells from the front, both the vanilla factions would have a much more dynamic army to fight with/against.

4. Is there something you struggle with the most?

Blobs reaching critical mass, end-game call-ins and abilities that literally end gameplay, infantry squad behaviors in taking cover/aiming/facing/moving, general pathing inefficiencies and issues, freak squad wipes from unpredictable and random events, multiplayer delays.

5. Do you have any specific examples you’d like to share? (Something like ‘I have a hard time dealing with ‘X’ thing, I think it would be easier if I had ‘Y’ thing)

I have a hard time justifying myself and allies, or pressuring my opponents into spending fuel on anything other than the most burly/broken tank call ins or katyusha/stuka. I also have a hard time making a meaningful dent in my opponents resource income, which undermines the entire mid-game. It pretty much eliminates it in most cases.

If Soviet T70s and SU-76s came out early and were facing off against StuGs, there would be the makings for a solid mid-game.

Thank you Cynthia, I will cross-post:

I will mostly talk about the Soviets, as I feel OKH are in a good place right now



1. Is there something that you feel is lacking from the COH2 Vanilla army that you usually play?

2. Is there something WFA armies have that you’d like to see COH2 Vanilla armies gain in the game?



For both:

Forward Retreat Points

Would be nice to see for Ostheer and Sovs, not necessarily as core but as doctrinal ability.

As noted it would enable Urban Defence to scale into something else; and an interesting ability to add to the Artillery Field Officer


Non-doctrinal Heavy Tanks

Though to be honest, I would prefer if this was fixed by making the KT doctrinal rather than the other way around

Infantry that are customisable and scalable

US infantry have this, Soviets don't and conscripts become outmatched in the later game


3. Do you have a specific wish list for your army?

You need to decide what you want the Soviets to be and make them that.

If their core is not supposed to be viable by itself and supplemented by commander choice then you need to fix those commanders that offer no late game call ins because they are implicitly useless

If their core is supposed to be usable and commanders are just supplemental, then their core units had better be good and you need to address the call in meta.


Right now we have call in meta + useless commanders which is the worst of both worlds


Right now Ostheer are a 4 Seasons Pizza, they have almost everything you need without having to chose a commander but there are lots of extra toppings to chose from if you want


Soviets you get a pizza base and you can have cheese or tomato; and if you want more you need to order it as an extra topping but only a few of these are any good so most of the menu is useless


Because I am enjoying this metaphor:

OKW are a rich but expensive deep-pan with all the toppings

USF are like discovering they forgot your entrée and they compensate by giving you all-you-can-eat appetisers

+++++++++++++

I understand that the original concept for the Soviets was that they should only have 50% of their core buildings up so that their teching did not mirror OKH.

That should no longer be a concern given that WFA forces tech even more differently, so I think Soviet tech should be opened up to help make core builds more viable


4. Is there something you struggle with the most?

OKW late game in teams is absurd


5. Do you have any specific examples you’d like to share? (Something like ‘I have a hard time dealing with ‘X’ thing, I think it would be easier if I had ‘Y’ thing)

Nerf caches so OKW cannot benefit from them, this will not affect 1v1 at all but make a big balance to team games

You might not need to do anything else

I like the mechanics the WFA brought and I hope they are implemented to vanilla factions. One example is the direct/indirect fire mechanic that the Scott and LeIG have, it would be cool to see the Su-76 have that. Also, adding OKW abilities/units to new Ostheer commanders would further show the concurrent involvement of units on both fronts (my fantasy is to have an Ostheer KT..but whatever).Finally, the original mechanics like vehicle crew repair for soviets would be more useful/more awesome if it was replaced by allowing the crew to exit and repair (I'd like it for all factions, not just USF, but I get that its unique and could offer balance problems). Modifying existing commanders is probably a good idea as well to make useless ones useable.