COH2 Vanilla armies (x-post from Cynthia)

This is a cool idea Cynthia, but honestly. Even if you had a 100 man community department, you could not possibly go through all our items. It would take you until christmas to hear us all out individually. Use Romeo's issue tracker, it's the easiest way to display what the community feels is messing up the game and you can present it easily in a meeting.

General:
-Vet abilities seems lacking in comparison to WFA.
-STOCK units (soviets) seems lacking in comparison to WFA ones. Commander complements, doesn't defines you.
-Teching doesn't seem competitive as with WFA. SU due to performance of stock units, OH due to cost of teching on itself.

SU:
Penals: a bit more difference in combat range utility in comparison to conscripts
PTRS: they need to reduce the amount of this being field by either unit (Guards, Partisans and Cons) and increase it's effectiveness. You could leave it as it is, but make it have a bit better AI.
T70&Su76: swap them
Su85: i don't know what but the unit feels outdated.

OH:
BP1 needs to be really more cheap. You can compensate a part of it with either BP2 or T3 building. So skipping T3 and going T4 still valid.


Nitpicks: things that are meh and don't want to further explain.
-Dhska and it's AP
-Little AT
-Partisans
-Armored vehicle detection (60muni). Because i guess we don't have a similar ability which reveals ALL the vehicles on the minimap -Signal Relay- and it is even cheaper (50muni)
-FHQ: for being a huge cheesy strat.
-Defensive commander: what about giving the ol beta barbwire with a muni cost?

-Stuka heavy strafe: or how bad it seems in comparison to skillplane P47
-Smoke bombs: could be change to add a bit more tactical options
-LefH18
-German Defense: what about giving he ol beta barbwire with a muni cost?
-G43 on PGs: why not increase cost and give them a bit more functionality. Vision increase or something.
-Mechanized groups: because a 3CP clowncar is gonna be useful. Reduce the CP requirements and fuel cost by 5-10.

Make it so you can put support weapons inside. Now you have a mortar halftrack and a Kubel
/joke
On the other hand i don't think putting a normal mortar should be bad at all.

And here I was thinking it was the new factions that are the problem.....

Hmm, interesting idea that deserves a considered response

First, fix all the bugs. Then get rid of all the redundant commander abilities and make each commander feel unique and strategically impactful like their WFA counter parts. Then address the issue of call ins. Bring back decision making to the vcoh2 armies, at the moment it's almost always more cost effective to wait for call ins which is extremely boring and repetive.

Suppression bonuses against blobs/Make on map Howie's cheaper or better, rarely used...

Reading through all the answers to this on the official forum just makes me sick

I really want to make this awesome effort post but I'm just wasted. I don't really see Relic taking any action on the ideas/recommendations.

Well seeing as though they asked this when COH2 first came out and there are both still bugs from the original beta in the game (use infantry ability, munitions consumed, nothing happens) and most of the points raised back then- Ostheer T3 and T4 is boring, Soviets need a complete redesign, Ostheer root design is so complete that commanders only serve to supplement their armies, while the Soviets are typically entirely dependent on abilities and units from commanders, thus making all but around 3 or 4 useful, Soviet faction design shows an active contempt of history, ectectect- are still entirely true.


Still find it hilarious that Relic moved heaven and earth to nerf assault engineers, which from what I saw wasn't even entirely necessary considering the lack luster armored commander, yet left the Kubelwagon unchanged long enough for Relic employees to get into games and insult players.


I honestly don't even know where I'd start with all the issues at this point. Relic keeps releasing new content without fixing the old and when you point out the issue that fixing the problem has become much bigger than the problem itself, your posts gets censored by Relic mods and you get infractions for it.


So Relic wants to hear your feedback, but they don't want to hear your feedback and will punish you for giving it.

Well seeing as though they asked this when COH2 first came out and there are both still bugs from the original beta in the game (use infantry ability, munitions consumed, nothing happens) and most of the points raised back then- Ostheer T3 and T4 is boring, Soviets need a complete redesign, Ostheer root design is so complete that commanders only serve to supplement their armies, while the Soviets are typically entirely dependent on abilities and units from commanders, thus making all but around 3 or 4 useful, Soviet faction design shows an active contempt of history, ectectect- are still entirely true.


Still find it hilarious that Relic moved heaven and earth to nerf assault engineers, which from what I saw wasn't even entirely necessary considering the lack luster armored commander, yet left the Kubelwagon unchanged long enough for Relic employees to get into games and insult players.


I honestly don't even know where I'd start with all the issues at this point. Relic keeps releasing new content without fixing the old and when you point out the issue that fixing the problem has become much bigger than the problem itself, your posts gets censored by Relic mods and you get infractions for it.


So Relic wants to hear your feedback, but they don't want to hear your feedback and will punish you for giving it.

HAH!

The general sentiment of the Coh2 multiplayer community in a nutshell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xPaeONSn_8#t=54

Ooookay maybe a little bit of hyperbole here, but the parallels here are eerie

SERIOUSLY, watch the entire video and tell me that it doesn't parallel Relics relationship with the COH2 multiplayer community 1:1. It's hilarious, it's like listening to Dark Side of the Moon while watching the Wizard of Oz, only with awesome guitar solos instead of creepy munchkins.

HAH!

The general sentiment of the Coh2 multiplayer community in a nutshell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xPaeONSn_8#t=54

Ooookay maybe a little bit of hyperbole here, but the comparisons here are eerie

But Relic is supposed to be a company of professionals, and the internet has always been perceived as the kiddie pool.

The technical and balance aspects have been talked to death and there are numerous votes and topics on new units for dlcs . What i want to ask is for 2 skins for those who didnt preorder the WFA ,i paid 17e , i think 2 skins should be included in the price , also i would like the the american squad upgrades to be available like all other upgrades of other factions not this pick up from the base mechanism which makes the base needlessly bloated .

1. Is there something that you feel is lacking from the COH2 Vanilla army that you usually play?
I feel that the Soviets need a total rework, especially the callin meta. Soviets need the ability to go with doctines like NKVD which don't provide callins, and still be able to win. (Speaking of NKVD, I have been using it and it is decent with conspam and 2 munitions caches).
2. Is there something WFA armies have that you’d like to see COH2 Vanilla armies gain in the game?
I would like to see a total rework of the vet 1 bonuses of both the soviets and the Ostheer. Especially the soviets, who don't have a single useful vet1 ability with the exception of sprint and possibly trip-wire mines.
3. Do you have a specific wish list for your army?
I think the soviets need to have a more viable nondoctrinal late game. Relying on spamming t34/76s is not all that great due to the meh AI they have and the meh AT they contribute. You always end up needing to outnumber late game german armor 2 to 1. The soviet T4 in general also needs to be reworked to actually fill a role. Curently, it is like the soviet T2, filled with useful units when the building is first built, but with bad scalability. Su85s can't penetrate anything above a p4 reliably, and su76s which are useful on barrage but shitty elsewhere. Katyushas are good, no complaints there.
4. Is there something you struggle with the most?
When I play as soviets, my bigget trouble lies in not relying on callins.
5. Do you have any specific examples you’d like to share? (Something like ‘I have a hard time dealing with ‘X’ thing, I think it would be easier if I had ‘Y’ thing)
Narp.

Also, this post is written by a player who mainly plays germans now because of the lackluster soviet non-cheese army.

This sums up my feelings as well, so +1. Same for VonIvan's post.

I actually think that there is a fair bit of agreement among the playerbase on the biggest issues, and that the biggest differences are over particular solutions. It's rare that someone says something like "the problem is that I have to stall for too long to call on a Tiger."

General:
-Vet abilities seems lacking in comparison to WFA.
-STOCK units (soviets) seems lacking in comparison to WFA ones. Commander complements, doesn't defines you.
-Teching doesn't seem competitive as with WFA. SU due to performance of stock units, OH due to cost of teching on itself.

SU:
Penals: a bit more difference in combat range utility in comparison to conscripts
PTRS: they need to reduce the amount of this being field by either unit (Guards, Partisans and Cons) and increase it's effectiveness. You could leave it as it is, but make it have a bit better AI.
T70&Su76: swap them
Su85: i don't know what but the unit feels outdated.

OH:
BP1 needs to be really more cheap. You can compensate a part of it with either BP2 or T3 building. So skipping T3 and going T4 still valid.


Nitpicks: things that are meh and don't want to further explain.
-Dhska and it's AP
-Little AT
-Partisans
-Armored vehicle detection (60muni). Because i guess we don't have a similar ability which reveals ALL the vehicles on the minimap -Signal Relay- and it is even cheaper (50muni)
-FHQ: for being a huge cheesy strat.
-Defensive commander: what about giving the ol beta barbwire with a muni cost?

-Stuka heavy strafe: or how bad it seems in comparison to skillplane P47
-Smoke bombs: could be change to add a bit more tactical options
-LefH18
-German Defense: what about giving he ol beta barbwire with a muni cost?
-G43 on PGs: why not increase cost and give them a bit more functionality. Vision increase or something.
-Mechanized groups: because a 3CP clowncar is gonna be useful. Reduce the CP requirements and fuel cost by 5-10.

Make it so you can put support weapons inside. Now you have a mortar halftrack and a Kubel
/joke
On the other hand i don't think putting a normal mortar should be bad at all.

What is this ol beta barbwire with a muni cost?

What is this ol beta barbwire with a muni cost?

Back in the beta, the Soviets had a barbed wire field instead of the normal barbed wire they have now. Instead of blocking access to areas, the wire field would instead slow down all infantry passing through i. It was really cool.

T-70 and SU-76 switch, while I agree that soviet tiers should be restrictive there is a big problem in that they have no real cohesion within the tiers. Su-76 and T-70 are both made redundant by their tier mates and past tech timing changes. Switching them would give them good cohesion with their while still maintaining the tier's specialized and generalist roles.

How many times must we request this change? It would open up so much more strategic depth with one simple change.

Back in the beta, the Soviets had a barbed wire field instead of the normal barbed wire they have now. Instead of blocking access to areas, the wire field would instead slow down all infantry passing through i. It was really cool.

I thought this wire was awesome. As if Combat Engineers on their own are SOOO powerful that the wire field would be OP. I am all for bringing it back to hinder the over-the-top OKW blobs.

Back in the beta, the Soviets had a barbed wire field instead of the normal barbed wire they have now. Instead of blocking access to areas, the wire field would instead slow down all infantry passing through i. It was really cool.

Iam all in for diversity so this sounds like cool thing that they should implement again.

It was, I had a lot of fun with wire fields it could really put blobs in a bad place. Tanks would travel over them at normal speed but not destroy them.

Can we start a movement to get the wire fields back please?!

1. soviet non doctrinal unit performance
2. bunch of completely useless copy paste commanders
3. flamethrower halftrack
4. useless commander abilities
5. static arty
6. teching
7. poorly thought out vet abilities
8. copy paste vet abilities
9. vet abilities being unbalanced

1.) Don't change anything about the old factions until you fix the bugs. Changing their design might introduce even more bugs, so for now stick with it and try to polish the current game.

2.) Talk to the playerbase. Find a few representatives for the different gamemodes and playerbases that you trust and feel that they are capable. Then work out with them. As much as I think this "listen to all" approach looks great, it doesn't really work that well on paper. It's just too many different opinions, spam ones drown out actual good ones that are well thought through. Just look at the ones of VonIvan that try to tackle the whole scope compared to some on the official forums, which.. well.. ;p