Caches, OP or not ?

Hello Friends, after i played against sib and sprice i thought it needs a thread, i know there might be already one about this topic but i had to do it. It was a normal game, allies vs axis, mixed teams. It was on ettelbrück, after we dominated the earlygame we thought it might be a goo victory for us but no.... they built ops, many ops, so many, that we were against more tanks than we could handle. M8s, jacksons, shermans, t34/85. It might be a ltp issue but both of us my mate and me aren't bad players so i would like to know what you think about. They have the biggest effect in teamgames though, i know but i want to know your opinion. Should they be in the game?

They are also called caches but i think it's obvious what i mean.

Here's the replay: http://www.coh2.org/replay/25043/ettelbr%C3%BCck

They call the caches now, I think.

Op? Ops in this game are Opels. If you mean caches, no, they are not OP.

Mind posting that replay?

Op? Ops in this game are Opels. If you mean caches, no, they are not OP.

I don't mind if you change the title if it is wrong.

I think they're fair - you sacrifice 200 MP, which is almost the cost of another unit, so you are giving up a stronger force and map presence. As far as the poll question goes, I would definitely say they take skill. The skill is not losing/falling too far behind in spite of having invested resources in this way. After all, it is not particularly to destroy Caches with tanks/artillery/AT weaponry if you are in a truly dominant position. The Cache is another thing your opponent has to defend.

Caches are all about sacrificing resources in the now for more resources in the later. The reason you dominated the early game was the exact same reason why you were overwhelmed by tanks in the late game. Sib and Sprice sacrificed their early game manpower to gamble on a massive fuel income late. When facing this kind of tactic it is absolutely critical to use your early game advantage to take out the caches or build caches of your own.

I personally like caches as they add an extra layer of strategy to the game, particularly in 2s.

They are good for most factions except OKW, they shouldn't get the benefit as it defeats the purpose of fuel/munition starved. With caches OKW can get armour out faster and more often.

Caches are all about sacrificing resources in the now for more resources in the later. The reason you dominated the early game was the exact same reason why you were overwhelmed by tanks in the late game. Sib and Sprice sacrificed their early game manpower to gamble on a massive fuel income late. When facing this kind of tactic it is absolutely critical to use your early game advantage to take out the caches or build caches of your own.

I personally like caches as they add an extra layer of strategy to the game, particularly in 2s.

Sure, but don't you think they destroy the sense of the special points and the whole resource system of coh? It is just like mg spam, just with tanks. And the price you pay (if you build them at a secure place which is map dependend) is nothing compared to the advantage you get.

There was a Wehr player, you could have built caches too but chose not to.

Caches are a way to either trade early game power for late game power or a way to solidify an early game lead (you took less manpower bleed thus can build caches to get more tanks later).

I don't think you lost because of Caches. The early game went to Allied forces as it was a time when they controlled 80% of the map.
Then you made a good push in the mid game, but at that point it was too late as T-34/85 started to roll. Then came consequent mistakes from both Axis players.
Enemy is running around with loads of infantry? Lets NOT get walking stuka or ubersoldaten, but rather rush for a pather! There is a tons of buildings to put rocketwarfer in and take out enemy tanks, but who needs that, right?

Wehrmacht player was funny too, did not seem to have too many LMG grens and really loved to go rambo with his tiger. Also double flamer engineers was stupid, LMG upgrade would have been much better.

Just going to copy/paste this from another thread, that I replied in.

"However, I do feel there is a way to stop the over bearing advantage the axis have, when they have those commanders that synergize so well, without making counter part DLC commanders for the Allies. Relic has to stop the mutual benefits received.

-Caches should only provide benefit for the person who made them. This provides a problem in and of itself. If someone builds a cache, why should another member of the team be penalised, if they want to make a cache on the same point? Relic needs to find a way so that other players can invest their own 200mp into that same cache, without adding durability to the cache. Perhaps each player could have his or her own supply crate on a point, to signify they have one there? If so, it should be visible to all players (when the point is in viewing range of the opposing team). It also makes that point strategically very interesting, if a team has invested 800mp into that cache, and all of a sudden it becomes undefended...

-Aura's or Halo's should only apply to the players own units.

-Unit training should only be applied to the users own units.

-Supply/medical drops should only be able to be picked up by the player who dropped them or any opposing player. This goes for allies and axis.

-Opal trucks should only benefit the player who makes them.


Of course there should be exceptions to that kind of thinking. Things like Community repair bays (OKW truck/Industry bay) or community healing centres, should be accessible to all friendly players."

I definitely agree that caches in larger team games are far too efficient. In 1v1 and 2v2 they feel about right but it starts to get ridiculous in 3s and 4s. Restricting cache income to the player who built it might cause real estate issues with players on the same team fighting to build their cache in a key location but at the bare minimum cache income and in general resource income needs to come down as the number of players in a game increases.

This thread.... sigh..

yes they are OP's. observation posts!

The other point of caches is to prevent the enemy from taking them quickly. That still depends on reaction time, because you waste 200mp if you just let their pioniers destroy it with flamethrower. In that regard they are not OP, they come at cost of manpower and the fact that it only prevents capture so long as its not destroyed. Sure spending 50 munitions for flamethrower can be steep, but if that engineer unit keeps running around sectors looking for caches to burn up, the strategy of going for caches pretty much disintegrate, even if you hunt down that engineer unit.

Depends a lot on game circumstances though, some maps offer more protection for sectors that you can easily expect to spend 200mp and not have it wasted because the enemy would never reach it.

Hello Friends, after i played against sib and sprice i thought it needs a thread, i know there might be already one about this topic but i had to do it. It was a normal game, allies vs axis, mixed teams. It was on ettelbrück, after we dominated the earlygame we thought it might be a goo victory for us but no.... they built ops, many ops, so many, that we were against more tanks than we could handle. M8s, jacksons, shermans, t34/85. It might be a ltp issue but both of us my mate and me aren't bad players so i would like to know what you think about. They have the biggest effect in teamgames though, i know but i want to know your opinion. Should they be in the game?

They are also called caches but i think it's obvious what i mean.

Here's the replay: http://www.coh2.org/replay/25043/ettelbr%C3%BCck

That's their whole purpose Mobo they OP points.

... Then came consequent mistakes from both Axis players ... loved to go rambo with his tiger.

You got outplayed at early and early midgame, fighting for insignicant stuff. Resulting in the loss of yout fuel at 5:17, which you got back with half assed attempts in minute 8. During that episode u gained 8 and 10 fuel, to allied 35+. That alone Had a bigger influence on the incomebalance than those Caches u blamed.

What you experienced was them skipping mid tier tech entirely and getting pushed back in mid game (10min). You might have felt that you turned the tides. But you really didnt, you just normalized.

The consequent mistakes were the loss of your tanks, not focussing on high prio targets like the m8. Not considering the fact he went airborne, sporting the strongest at-offmap, p47 aka hand of god. In every engagement you lost armored stuff, they didnt. Mainly because of the rambo thing, not preserving units and not guarding the backyard with mp at.

It was last night?

In that case-you should've made mediums instead of heavies.
Suiciding panthers also wasn't good idea.

Caches op? No Mp is more op. They should nerf mp. Or this forum.

And the question. My god, havent seen such biased question before.