It was kinda obvious that we were referring to the games multiplayer and the time it´s set in.
You just flat out stated that the Germans had superior armor.
You never specified a year, just a flat statement.
What new Soviet unit do you want to see in CoH2?
30 Sep 2014, 11:28 AM
#101
Posts: 978
30 Sep 2014, 11:43 AM
#102
Posts: 158 | Subs: 2
It was kinda obvious that we were referring to the games multiplayer and the time it´s set in.
Ok ok.
Now give me a good arguement to why Soviets should not have a competitive AT platform capable of competeing to a certain degree with JTs and KTs.
Because they didnt have such armor? Well the SU-100 saw service as you might have noticed.
Or is it just that you dont wanna to need to have a little challenge?
30 Sep 2014, 11:51 AM
#103
Posts: 978
Ok ok.
Now give me a good arguement to why Soviets should not have a competitive AT platform capable of competeing to a certain degree with JTs and KTs.
Because they didnt have such armor? Well the SU-100 saw service as you might have noticed.
Or is it just that you dont wanna to need to have a little challenge?
1. I don´t have OKW and I´m not planning to buy it. Not every player can build King Tigers and Jagdtigers. Nobody should be forced to buy it.
2. A unit competing with JTs would lead to the gameplay of the last big patch: Elefant vs ISU, only with Su-100s and JTs.
3. Why would the Jagdpanzer IV which is the most similar vehicle in the game to a SU-100 get 60 range and the SU-100 70 range? (The difference between both vehicles is marginal and the 75mm had a flatter trajectory.)
4. Multiplayer games: ISU-152 + SU-100 = Broken. Germans migth get the JT but can´t wipe infantry with one shot.
5. In the early stages of the game the SU-85 was hella OP. Now Imagine the chassis with more damage and range. For the same reason a Jagdpanther isn´t needed ingame either.
6. Super range tanks in the game are always slow, making them somewhat balanced.
30 Sep 2014, 12:05 PM
#104
Posts: 23
Su-10, counters Kubels and deploys at 0 CPs
A counter to Kubel??How can you say such blasphemy????....Use 8 Conscripts squads and watch Kubels burn....oh and adapt,L2P ftw
30 Sep 2014, 12:12 PM
#105
Posts: 158 | Subs: 2
1. I don´t have OKW and I´m not planning to buy it. Not every player can build King Tigers and Jagdtigers. Nobody should be forced to buy it. True, but its still a part of the game.
2. A unit competing with JTs would lead to the gameplay of the last big patch: Elefant vs ISU, only with Su-100s and JTs. Dont forget the KT.
3. Why would the Jagdpanzer IV which is the most similar vehicle in the game to a SU-100 get 60 range and the SU-100 70 range? (The difference between both vehicles is marginal and the 75mm had a flatter trajectory.) That 100mm gun have a helluva lot more mass per shell than a 75mm mind you, and this is a game that plays out on maps that arent larger than about 1000x1000m while we all know that tank combat could happen significantly further than that, taking in IRL logic in this case about a game doesnt work.
4. Multiplayer games: ISU-152 + SU-100 = Broken. Germans migth get the JT but can´t wipe infantry with one shot. In 1v1s an OKW player can get out both a JT and a KT since one is commander bound and the other one is a standard unit, meanwhile a Soviet player could only choose between the SU-100 (Stronger AT) or an ISU-152 (Assault gun with decent AT capabilities) since both would be commander bound, its more broken if you look at the OKW side tbh, Wehrmacht and Soviets would be quite fair in those regards tho.
5. In the early stages of the game the SU-85 was hella OP. Now Imagine the chassis with more damage and range. For the same reason a Jagdpanther isn´t needed ingame either. Its a commander bound call in, kinda like an elephant but it would probably have worse armor, and firerate but higher damage and a bit more mobility.
Comparing it with an SU-85 doesnt make sense since as i said time and time again it would be a commander bound call in and not a standard tank, just like the Elephant.
6. Super range tanks in the game are always slow, making them somewhat balanced.
30 Sep 2014, 12:15 PM
#106
Posts: 158 | Subs: 2
A counter to Kubel??How can you say such blasphemy????....Use 8 Conscripts squads and watch Kubels burn....oh and adapt,L2P ftw
Ikr, how dare Allies ask for more versiltilty!?
We have AT capable of killing the heaviest allied armor at our HQ (Panzerwerfer 43), but you cant have anything near that
30 Sep 2014, 12:31 PM
#107
Posts: 627
Just as a general point: The notion that having a unit to compare with the JT will lead to stale and predictable meta.
I'd prefer that.
I would honestly prefer to see JT's and SU-100Y's every game if it meant I had ANYTHING that could compete with the JT.
There's a reason I stopped playing allies much lately, and it is that. Rather than predictable meta of JT vs. something duels, we get JT standing on the face of all my tanks for easy axis wins.
You can complain about allied players wanting something they can leave behind the lines and remove all tanks with. The complaint that axis already have that is a more more valid and relevant one.
I'd prefer that.
I would honestly prefer to see JT's and SU-100Y's every game if it meant I had ANYTHING that could compete with the JT.
There's a reason I stopped playing allies much lately, and it is that. Rather than predictable meta of JT vs. something duels, we get JT standing on the face of all my tanks for easy axis wins.
You can complain about allied players wanting something they can leave behind the lines and remove all tanks with. The complaint that axis already have that is a more more valid and relevant one.
30 Sep 2014, 12:53 PM
#108
Posts: 158 | Subs: 2
This game is supposedly competitive now as well and thus it would make even more sense tom implement such vehicles.
30 Sep 2014, 13:13 PM
#109
Posts: 978
Okay, okay: Next on the (german) to do list: Jagdpanther - current Panther characteristics + Elefant gun. Have fun with that balanced game. I can only guess how big the uproar would be. 
30 Sep 2014, 13:24 PM
#110
Posts: 161
Okay, okay: Next on the (german) to do list: Jagdpanther - current Panther characteristics + Elefant gun. Have fun with that balanced game. I can only guess how big the uproar would be.
Asking for a balanced and legitimate unit as the Su 100 to help countering the JT,Ferdi, KT. Germoni needs another balance breaker to continue the trend.
Logic™ be gone
30 Sep 2014, 13:40 PM
#111
Posts: 158 | Subs: 2
Okay, okay: Next on the (german) to do list: Jagdpanther - current Panther characteristics + Elefant gun. Have fun with that balanced game. I can only guess how big the uproar would be.A semi mobile but significantly weaker chassis..
Sure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>implying that you need it tho
This was about the need of a TD that can compete with said vehicles, not something to add on "just because".
30 Sep 2014, 14:06 PM
#112
Posts: 23
A semi mobile but significantly weaker chassis..
Sure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>implying that you need it tho
This was about the need of a TD that can compete with said vehicles, not something to add on "just because".
But but... Germans from the Vest need more fictional OP german units,if things go like this they might loose a match...out of 5
30 Sep 2014, 15:21 PM
#113
Posts: 2070
Not sure what the negative uproar over the SU-100 is about. It would be a dedicated TD the Soviets need to stave off the multitude of Panthers, Tigers, KT, and Jagdtiger. Btw Jagdtiger and KT could probably kick its ass still.
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I prefer having the SU100 as a nondoc unit, which means you are not gimped when you choose Soviet commanders that lack heavy tnaks. That way you can finally use stuff like conscript support, Shock Army, Urban defense, etc., without getting automatically owned by German armor.
For those saying that it would contribute to stale and boring game, well, would you prefer what we currently have now? Jagdtiger and KT comes out = worthless Allied armor except ISU. Allies lack heavy AT to deal with these ridiculously heavy tanks. Less frustration = more fun!
|
I prefer having the SU100 as a nondoc unit, which means you are not gimped when you choose Soviet commanders that lack heavy tnaks. That way you can finally use stuff like conscript support, Shock Army, Urban defense, etc., without getting automatically owned by German armor.
For those saying that it would contribute to stale and boring game, well, would you prefer what we currently have now? Jagdtiger and KT comes out = worthless Allied armor except ISU. Allies lack heavy AT to deal with these ridiculously heavy tanks. Less frustration = more fun!
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
30 Sep 2014, 15:44 PM
#114
Posts: 978
Why not 60 range? Oh, yeah, German units aren´t supposed to fire back. You just want more cheese for that faction.
Asking for a balanced and legitimate unit as the Su 100 to help countering the JT,Ferdi, KT. Germoni needs another balance breaker to continue the trend.
Logic™ be gone
You are claiming ISU-152s are under-performing...
You aren´t willing to see the possible synergy in team games from ISU-152s and Su-100s with that range...
I made my point clear and I´m out of here. Soviet only players and their cheese.
30 Sep 2014, 15:50 PM
#115
Posts: 627
Why not 60 range? Oh, yeah, German units aren´t supposed to fire back. You just want more cheese for that faction.
You are claiming ISU-152s are under-performing...
You aren´t willing to see the possible synergy in team games from ISU-152s and Su-100s with that range...
I made my point clear and I´m out of here. Soviet only players and their cheese.
Jagdtiger + King Tiger + Tiger ace + Stuka = A-Okay
ISU + SU-100 = OMG CHEESE
Someone has a bit of a bias problem
30 Sep 2014, 15:57 PM
#116
Posts: 2070
Why not 60 range? Oh, yeah, German units aren´t supposed to fire back. You just want more cheese for that faction.
You are claiming ISU-152s are under-performing...
You aren´t willing to see the possible synergy in team games from ISU-152s and Su-100s with that range...
I made my point clear and I´m out of here. Soviet only players and their cheese.
We already have that crazy synergy with Jagdtiger + any other Axis heavy + schreck blobs
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
30 Sep 2014, 16:01 PM
#117
Posts: 978
Seems to be you. Note how in that equation there´s no Ostheer unit but the Tiger ace (which again not everybody has). The King Tiger and TA don´t have 70 range like it´s demanded on the SU-100. Neither do they oneshot squads to the extend of an ISU. Just imagine Germans got an ISU added to their JT... it would be shit in multiplayer. The same thing as Allies shouldn´t get a super range AT tank. Super range AT + Super range AI in one team = gg.
Jagdtiger + King Tiger + Tiger ace + Stuka = A-Okay
ISU + SU-100 = OMG CHEESE
Someone has a bit of a bias problem
30 Sep 2014, 16:18 PM
#118
Posts: 2070
Seems to be you. Note how in that equation there´s no Ostheer unit but the Tiger ace (which again not everybody has). The King Tiger and TA don´t have 70 range like it´s demanded on the SU-100. Neither do they oneshot squads to the extend of an ISU. Just imagine Germans got an ISU added to their JT... it would be shit in multiplayer. The same thing as Allies shouldn´t get a super range AT tank. Super range AT + Super range AI in one team = gg.
Yes but the Jgdtiger + Axis heavy have other forms of synergy and not just range. They have ridiculous armor and firepower. You seem fixated on the range aspect of the tnaks and not how they function in their respective armies/ opponents armies.
SU100 still would have the weaknesses of a nonturreted tank.
Please think about how it would fit into the current Soviet lineup. Soviets have to rely on call-ins just to deal respectable damage to Germany heavies. ZiS, T34s and SU85s don't do squat versus armored beasts like the Panther and KT.
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
30 Sep 2014, 16:22 PM
#119
Posts: 627
Super range AT + Super range AI in one team = gg.
SO. Jagdtiger + Stuka Zu Fuss, Jagd + Sturmtiger, Jagd + Tiger Ace, Jagd + King Tiger.
Replace Jagd with 'phant for the mildly less Super range (still equal to the ISU).
Meanwhile, the allies have.... ISU + ISU?
30 Sep 2014, 16:39 PM
#120
Posts: 161
Why not 60 range? Oh, yeah, German units aren´t supposed to fire back. You just want more cheese for that faction.
You are claiming ISU-152s are under-performing...
You aren´t willing to see the possible synergy in team games from ISU-152s and Su-100s with that range...
I made my point clear and I´m out of here. Soviet only players and their cheese.
ISU takes 3-4 hits to kill a Pz.IV
Ferdi two hits Su-85s
The list goes on....
Its underperforming against armour, not against infantry. Point clear?
Jagdtiger + King Tiger + Tiger ace + Stuka = A-Okay
ISU + SU-100 = OMG CHEESE
Someone has a bit of a bias problem
So true, oh wait add the 5min PUMA and 8min Obers :')
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