Soviet Commander Evaluation

Gokkel started with OKW

http://www.coh2.org/topic/23463/okw-commander-evaluation

Austerlitz did OKH

http://www.coh2.org/topic/23503/wehrmacht-commander-evaluation


Here is my take on the Soviets.


I am mostly a team player game so mostly writing with that in mind:


Guard Motor Co-ordination Common

For a long time this was one of THE doctrines, especially during the Era of the Unnerfed Tiger Ace. It remains a solid choice for anyone struggling against German Armour and greatly complements a T1/T4 build. It's main weakness is a lack of off map call ins, but with guards and Mark Target there are plenty of other good things to spend munitions on.


Guards

Best seen as light at support troops with some AI capacity and pretty much eaten by OKW infantry.
However they are a threat to their light armour such as Luchs and pumas.
Because they are not so common button is often unexpected and so smoke unavailable as such it can be an unwelcome surprise that will ruin someone's day.


120mm Mortar

Nice base truck you have there, shame if anything were to happen to it

Vehicle Repair

Meh

Mark Target

See that heavy armour? It's dead. Excellent for throwing into a fight you aren't even in which makes it a call in in all but name


2 x T34/85

Handy, powerful and hard hitting. Use these to give offensive punch to an SU-85 build or hold off to 10CP for the win



Guard Motor Combined Arms Common

Not highly favoured, but on the right map against the right opponent, useful

Hit the dirt

I'm going to lay still and get mortared and grenaded to bits
Pass

Guards

PPSH
If you can get close up, which makes this map dependent, this can help scale conscripts into the late game

152mm Howitzer

Fixed artillery is not so sexy, but OKW give juicy targets

23mm strafe

It's ok


NKVD Rifle Disruption

Considered a joke because you get no units, but has some niche abilities

Radio Intercept

Because knowing is half the battle

Recon

Nothing with recon is terrible

Fear Propaganda Artilery

Generally it is better to kill than pin then retreat. But it does stop capping and that's occasionally useful, and it is cheapish. And on a big map with restricted mobility (like Hill 331) it's a long walk back to the fight for OKH who cannot set up forward retreat units

Rapid Conscription

I don't use any of the munitions to manpower if you get killed abilities

23mm Strafe


Shock Motor Heavy

ISU-152 is not the god unit anymore but it is still pretty good and this commander gives you up close infantry and death from afar.

Shock Troops

Get close and go toe to toe with elite OKW infantry, but too many will drain MP like no tomorrow

Armoured Vehicle Detection

Never used this and I don't feel I am missing out

Conscript Repair

If you still have conscripts by the time this comes out, maybe situationally useful

IL-2 Bombstrike

BOOM

ISU-152

Wah! My vetted infantry got wiped!
Axis players hate this unit and will try to kill it with extreme prejudice, don't buy it if you can't protect it

Later

Shock Rifle

Currently possibly THE doctrine. The best Soviet Infantry, the best Soviet tank, a potent call in and the fearsome flame tank. This fits T2/T4 like a glove.

Shocks

Anti-Tank Gun Ambush

Under-rated but potent, especially now they have hold fire. Remember to turn it off when you try to move

incendiary Barrage

It's a bit irregular and not reliable, but will mess up infantry and especially support weapons

KV-8

Irresolute (or smart) Axis players will run from this, but it will mess with panzershrek squads. Do not overextend with it unless you are prepared to lose it.

IS-2

The only bona fide heavy tank the Soviets get, and the this is best commander to get it from


Conscript Support Uncommon

This does exactly what it says on the tin. I think this is very much a "I'm going to try and win the game early" commander because not much of this scales

Hit the Dirt

PPSH

Conscript Repair

Rapid Conscription

Incendiary Barrage


Armoured Assault Uncommon

Not popular as you get no early game abilities, no elite infantry and the two different tanks you do get now come too close together

Radio Intercept

Vehicle Repair

2 x T34/85

IS-2

23mm Strafe

Mechanised Support Uncommon

ISU-152 with guards is otherwise more or less identical to the shock equivalent. Guards can help prevent flanking armour though

Guards

ATG Ambush

Mark Vehicle

IL-2 Bombstrike

ISU-152


Terror Tactics Uncommon

Great name, so-so commander. Generally though there are other better options to get the things this has.

Shocks

Fear Propaganda Artillery

152mm Howitzer

KV-8

IL-2 Bombstrike

Anti-Infantry Uncommon

Why just be anti-infantry when you can terrify them.

Hence Terror is better

Shocks

Recon

Fear Propaganda Artilery

Incendiry Barrage

KV-8

Soviet Shock Army Common

Only useful I think if you must have shocks + 120mm, or you have no fuel, or you want to spend all your fuel on tank spam

Shocks

120mm Motar

PPSH

152mm howitzer

23mm Strafe

Soviet Combined Arms Common

Is very close to Guard Combined Arms, but probably better on open maps

Guards

Recon

ATG Ambush

152 howitzer

IL-2 bombstrike

Now into the more rares and uncommons, which, fortunately, don't have the duplication the more vanilla options do.

This does not mean any of them are necessarily good, but at least they add variety

Soviet Reserve Army

Irregulars

This is the only commander with these, so if you want to tip your hand to your opponent about what commander you have and feel the urge for 4 man squads with an LMG they can barely use and grenades they can then go for it

PPSH

Consript Repair

Rapid Conscription

152mm Howitzer


Counterattack Rare

People love this, gives you shocks, recon and the B4s to fight Axis heavies

Shocks

Recon

For Mother Russia

Does what people think urrah! does in that it boosts combat and movement

B4-Howitzer

I don't really like this, but plenty of people do. It's too random as an artillery piece so usually gets employed as a really big AT Gun

KV-1

If you've played TOW you realise how scary this tank is in 1941

In the 1944-5 regular game though it's a tougher, more expensive T34 with slightly better AI that can't ram

This is NOT a heavy tank, don't try to use it as one



Urban Defence Rare

Not a common thing at all, but one of the things that can win a team game by itself, especially if the opposition have committed to unhelpful doctrines or don't know how to deal with it. It is rare enough that that is exactly what can happen

Forward Headquarters

Capstone ability for this is available at OCP.
Nothing else in this doctrine matters

Get this setup deep in enemy territory or at their cut off and ruin their day

It buffs, heals and reinforces friendly units around it, so enemies that try to attack and fight it head on bleed manpower and feed you vet

Most of the abilities that can kill it come later, but by then the damage is often done

Can be insanely scary on maps like Angermunde where they can leapfrog up a side

45mm AT Gun

Cute but cheap, and potent within the FHQ aura

Armoured Vehicle Detection

Booby trap territory

I feel this is too expensive for what it does

incendiary Artillery


Partisans Uncommon

Like FHQ, rare enough that people often don't expect them and can't deal with them. Used correctly will troll your opponent into razing every building on the map on general principle. Mark Target keeps vanilla armour relevant in the late game

Radio Intercept

Partisans

These lose a fair fight

Don't give the enemy a fair fight, harass team weapons, wounded units and artillery

Partisan tank hunters

As above, but to vehicles. Also excellent at outflanking and destroying bunkers


Spy Network

Less obvious recon

Mark Target


Soviet Industry Uncommon

Not Win-dustry anymore and a very hard commander to get right and co-ordinate with team mates. Often ends up starved of MP and swimming in munitions (so lay mines and charges EVERYWHERE)


Soviet Industry

Gives extra fuel income at expense of MP

Which means you don't need to build caches, except that your teammates will, so you get a bunch of fuel you cannot use, especially as you get close to pop cap

Repair Station

Teammates will appreciate these, but don't go overboard, lay mine instead

Vehicle Repair

You have the munitions to spare

KV-8

KV-2

This is not a heavy tank, its a mobile protected artillery piece. Use it to lock down whole areas and put some repair stations next to it, not to fight with

Defensive Tactics

This was semi-relevant when the call ins came at 0CP, now it is pointless

120mm mortar

45mm ATG

Dishka HMG

This ought to wreck light vehicles, it doesn't

Tank Traps

Situational, if the enemy has left you alone long enough to get them up serves him right

Anti Personnel Mine

Um

Advanced Warfare Rare

Bit of a lighter version of Guards Motor, lacks its breadth but can be useful

Radio Intercept

No one cared about this when the NKVD guy had this; when this guy came along it was suddenly broken

PPSH

Conscript Repair

1 x T34/85

23mm Strafe


Lend-Lease Rare

Was very popular when it first came out because it had shermans

Complements a T4 build very well as it gives a half track and a medium tank, and T4 gives you Katuyshas for indirect punch

Dishka HMG

Given that no one uses the Defensive Commander seeing these is a give away

Allied Supply Drop

This is very expensive and unreliable conversion and the axis can really easily shoot it down

Conscript Repair

M5 Assault Group
Gives you a half track with guards, albeit with shock like equipment and not AT

Sherman

Summary.

That's a lot of options, but many of them are duplicates and don't add anything new. Then there are others that are totally unique


Top Doctrines:

Shock Rifle

Shock Motor Disruption


Solid doctrines:

Mechanised Support

Lend lease

Counterattack

Guard Motor coordination


Solid Unconventional doctrines:

Urban Defence

Partisans


Ok in the right situation:

Combined Arms

Guard Motor Combined Arms



Marginal conventional doctrines:

Conscript Support

Armoured Assault

NKVD Rifle


Marginal unconventional doctrines:

Soviet Industry


Other commanders do this better:

Advanced Warfare (Guards Motor, Lend Lease)

Anti-Infantry
Soviet Shock Army Other shock doctrines
Terror



I can beat you no matter what commander I chose:

Defensive

Soviet Reserve

People think NKVD belongs here too, so that is really the message you send if someone sees it in your loadout

Nice,descriptions like a pro.I hate shock motor most.

I'd say you're overrating shocks, and underrating guards and mark target. No matter the game size I'd rate guard motor and guard mechanized the top two commanders for soviets period. Third best is Shock rifle for 1vs1 and counterattack for team games. Shock motor acts as a gimpy, free version of guard mechanized. It's better to pick it than anything without ISU, but the guard one is simply better so there's little reason to ever pick shock motor.

OKW pretty much killed off any vestiges of viability partisans or forward HQs had. They're in the "I can beat you no matter what" tier now. NKVD is definitely there as well, hell it's far worse than soviet reserve or defensive. OKW also pretty much removes one ability completely from lend lease (the fuel drop), which is why I really wouldn't rate it as highly as you do.

Correction: at the last post, i guess you are talking about Guard Rifles Combined Army (HTD, PPSH, Guards, Howi)


I would put Guard Motor on top (cause it has always been a top choice through every single patch IIRC) and switch the ISU shock commander with the one with Guards. Why? Well, having at hand button + Mark vehicle + Bombing strike, it's at the same level as having Recon + Stuka. You have the tools to counter your counter.

I'd say you're overrating shocks, and underrating guards and mark target. No matter the game size I'd rate guard motor and guard mechanized the top two commanders for soviets period. Third best is Shock rifle for 1vs1 and counterattack for team games. Shock motor acts as a gimpy, free version of guard mechanized. It's better to pick it than anything without ISU, but the guard one is simply better so there's little reason to ever pick shock motor.

OKW pretty much killed off any vestiges of viability partisans or forward HQs had. They're in the "I can beat you no matter what" tier now. NKVD is definitely there as well, hell it's far worse than soviet reserve or defensive. OKW also pretty much removes one ability completely from lend lease (the fuel drop), which is why I really wouldn't rate it as highly as you do.

When you say guard mechanized are you saying mechanized support doctrine?

I really like the Mechanized support because it gives you guards for soft AT and a bombing strike plus the beastly ISU. Shock Rifle is good as well

I really wish non-call in doctrines would become more viable. A faction should be able to stand on it's own throughout the game without a doctrine to stay relevant.

I really wish non-call in doctrines would become more viable. A faction should be able to stand on it's own throughout the game without a doctrine to stay relevant.

I agree. Every faction should be good on its own without commanders. Commanders should only add cool stuff or nice bonuses that compliment your playstyle or give u a little bit a strategic edge. Having commanders that do so much that even supplement the core units only make balance even harder.

I really wish non-call in doctrines would become more viable. A faction should be able to stand on it's own throughout the game without a doctrine to stay relevant.

So much this. Pretty much any soviet commander without a A) Arty piece B) Armor ability is not used.

I'd say you're overrating shocks, and underrating guards and mark target. No matter the game size I'd rate guard motor and guard mechanized the top two commanders for soviets period. Third best is Shock rifle for 1vs1 and counterattack for team games. Shock motor acts as a gimpy, free version of guard mechanized. It's better to pick it than anything without ISU, but the guard one is simply better so there's little reason to ever pick shock motor.

Mechanized support doctrine (Guards/Mark Vehicle/ISU) has been my default doctrine for a long time, but since WFA release I can't get Guards to work in 2vs2 games as they got raped by Obers/Jaeger/Falls or Gren/LMG blobs.

Now I'm stuck with Shock Motor (Shocks/ISU) or Shock Rifle (Shocks/IS2), just because they have shocks that can hold the ground against OKW elite infantry, but I really miss Mark Vehicle because without it my T34/76s feel useless against heavy tanks and I have to rely absolutely in call-ins tanks.

Are currently Guards really competitive in 2vs2 against decent skilled axis teams? (Usually I move between rank 150~500 in the ladder)
How many Guards do you usually build? Do you support them with T1 or T2?

Sometimes I don't know when to switch between Shock Rifle or Mechanized Support. I think if you are skilled enough to move your shocks to close in, then Shock Rifle could be a better commander.

Then again Mechanized support seems very safe. Guards for light At Work, plus ambush camo, bomb strike for blobs, and ISU for late game.

OKW pretty much killed off any vestiges of viability partisans or forward HQs had. They're in the "I can beat you no matter what" tier now. NKVD is definitely there as well, hell it's far worse than soviet reserve or defensive. OKW also pretty much removes one ability completely from lend lease (the fuel drop), which is why I really wouldn't rate it as highly as you do.

FHQ can win a game, and Partisans whilst not powerful are a lot of fun.

As such I would not consider either useless, just niche


I think Lend Lease fuel drop is the least interesting and least useful part of the doctrine after conscript repair, so that doesn't matter too much to me. 3 useful calls in does matter to me

I'd say you're overrating shocks, and underrating guards and mark target.

I think Mark Target is awesome, that's why I think Partisans are relevant in the late game

But I do think right now that Shocks > Guards if only in team games

Shocks at least give you a chance against elite OKW infantry that Guards don't

guards are sometimes viable so long as they dont have obers. obers rape guards, at least shocks have an opportunity to force obers away at close up. against a okw that knows how to keep obers at range and firing, guards have no chances. apart from that, they are a pretty solid set of infantry.

against 2v2s good teams, i would say stick to shocks as they give a more decisive edge when they can force mass retreats and people at that level know how to micro obers.

vet 3 guards however, are lovely.

Guards use to have one of the best vet stats.
Against Obers you necessarily needs something to act as a meatshield, if not you are just gonna bleed hard.

My guards always seem to have problems with fallshirmjagers, even when I double them up and they have LMG's.