My 2¢ on beta

Before I list all my criticisms, I do think the game has potential and will be a fun change of pace from the stale exploitable vCoH meta. But as the game stands now, will the competitive scene survive 6-7 years after release? Not a chance.

Basic design/mechanics

-The UI is rubbish, there are enough threads about this so I'm not going to bother going into detail. This could be changed (or so we thought) but the UI designer seems so pleased with his new revolutionary layout, and it doesn't look like he is willing to take hints from the competitive players but would rather make it noob friendly.

-Blizzards in the current state are just an annoyance to the player and don't really encourage strategic decisions but instead just slow down the game. As they are right now, I think it should be limited to just basic matches and campaign. The "use halftracks" option isn't very viable at all, since by the time the first blizzard hits, there is already a hard counter to those units. Blizzards occur too often, and the troops die of exposure way too fast. The blurry vision is also ridiculous. The troops already have their simulated view distance shortened, so there is no reason for the player to have his vision impaired from a 3rd person perspective.

*I don't think more than 1-2 blizzards should occur in any game no matter how long it lasts. Every 30 minutes, have the game randomly pick a time for the blizzard to happen, with a possibility of not happening at all. Give more advanced warning, decrease movement penalties, (we already have deep snow for that) and for the love of god give a slower decay on the temperature gauges. Blizzards should be an opportunity to reposition for ambushes or make surprise attacks with the reduced visibility, not slow the game to a near halt while mortaring the hell out of the guys known fire positions.

-not sure why the resource system was changed, it was perfect

-Doctrine abilities are unclocked cumulative, instead of choosing where to spend your points. The strategic of decisions in vCoH doctrine choice like "should I go RHS terror to counter Howi, or LHS to counter Shermans + retreat infantry" no longer exist.

-Tactical map is useless, what should have improved took about 5 steps backward.

-Less functionality on replays, lack of custom hotkeys, outdated menu layout.

-units are terrible at garrisoning buildings, often they run around the house multiple times before entering, or make a long pause at the doorway

-the garrisoned indicator makes it difficult to read the health bar of the unit

-tanks try to run over fire pits at every opportunity, not only damaging engine but making you spend 100mp again to rebuild the fire

+Capping from minimap

+Vaulting

+last man on gun crews retreats off the map instead of mysteriously dropping dead

Balance

-Soviet AT guns are not capable of taking on Panthers/Tigers, nor is anything else without using the cheesy T34 ram ability

-Conscripts nerfed too heavily since alpha, their rifles are comparable to the vCoH Jeep .30cal and their molotovs aren't worth using unless the guy is dumb enough to not move out of the fire

-German sniper fires too slowly to be effective against 6 man squads

-the extra men in the 6 man Soviet weapons teams are just a waste of population cap

-Soviet sniper can insta counter snipe the already useless German sniper, while it would take 2 German snipers to eliminate the Soviet team

*When the Soviet sniper carrying the actual scoped rifle is killed, his escort should retreat off the map like the extra man on AT/mortar crews. Only the escort should be available to reinforce if the real sniper survives. This way German sniper can countersnipe in 1 shot if he targets the right man

-Panzerfaust damages engine every time I think

-Panther is far too durable

-satchel charge on ice+tank= dead tank

*increase timer on satchel

+flamers were nerfed

+mortars were nerfed

+Pak was nerfed

I'll add to this as I remember more stuff

you forgot to add that ostwind kills every tank on ice with one shot - just give attack ground on enemy tank or near to it and watch how it dies, once i killed 2 SU-85 and 1 T-34 with ostwind

panzerfaust is like cons AT nade, every hit means insta engine damage (like rifle sticky but it was more random then 100% sure engne damage)

not that Panther is too strong, it's just UP soviet gun and limited amount of good Tank destroyers

-Soviet AT guns are not capable of taking on Panthers/Tigers, nor is anything else without using the cheesy T34 ram ability

MVGame

the only way to kill a panther that i have discovered is using the su85s maybe 2 and you can easily bring down or force it back depending how stupid the player. just have to micro the dumb bastards as they are mentally retarded.

100% Agree, for me the most 2 annoying things of the beta are these(pointed out at #0 already): The UI and the doctrine "choice", this last one especially makes me angry. In vCoH(HELL, EVEN FUCKING OF DOCTRINES) there was a very defined choice you had to make. ie: for US, you had to choose between tanks, arty and airborne. All 3 are very different and suit different playstyles, moreover you'll get X tech or Y tech depending on the doctrine you had, it was awesome.
Now in CoH2 that doesn't happen at all(at least for Soviets, haven't played germans yet) Regardless of the doctrine you choose it feels the same, it doesn't have an impact on the game, every doctrine looks alike. It sux. Then you add the fact that it is comulative points, like pointed in #0, you don't even have to choose anything, it just makes it... so bad.



Btw, wasn't there an NDA or something?

-not sure why the resource system was changed, it was perfect

It wasn't perfect. You shouldn't be floating fuel every end game if the system was perfect. I actually like the idea of customizing your territory income for your needs; it makes way for more decisions and build customization, if they are willing to put in a effort to balance and tweak it.

i dont know why but i am under the impression that coh2 resembles Dow2 more than vcoh , is anyone else thinking that ?

i dont know why but i am under the impression that coh2 resembles Dow2 more than vcoh , is anyone else thinking that ?

I absolutely, positively agree 100%. CoH 2 feels more like DoW 2 without commanders + melee units.

i dont know why but i am under the impression that coh2 resembles Dow2 more than vcoh , is anyone else thinking that ?

no, for a few reasons:
- there's no melee ability to tie up weapon teams
- there's no jump troops to tie up suppression teams
- there is indirect fire in CoH2
- there are no elaborate squad wipe set ups using different knock abilities and grenades in the retreat path
- you can be cut off from your resources in CoH2
- the teching isn't as linear
- and oh yeah it's not set in the fucking 40k universe and there isn't eighteen bloody match ups to learn.

well, coh2 is still a lot more closer to vcoh than to dow2, but indeed, it has a dow2-ish feel : VP race, high lethality, some T2-3 shock vehicule/units with very high death potential, less points to cap, and others

@ipkaifung
not 18, it's 21

I said 18 because there are 18 commanders but there's a shit more match ups to learn in DoW2 than either CoH or CoH2

well, coh2 is still a lot more closer to vcoh than to dow2, but indeed, it has a dow2-ish feel : VP race, high lethality, some T2-3 shock vehicule/units with very high death potential, less points to cap, and others

@ipkaifung
not 18, it's 21

That combined with the more homogenized infantry, the removal of target tables, the even larger disparity in squad sizes, the larger focus on building OPs on points, fewer buildings and field defenses to create, and so on. Also, did DoW 2 do the whole "this map is a 1v1 and a 2v2" thing? I can't remember.

Also, ipkf, you're right that teching is less linear in CoH 2 in DoW 2, but it's also more linear than vCoH, so in terms of what direction the game moved in, it went closer to DoW 2, is what I mean. And although you can be cut off in CoH 2, the maps we have (especially that crappy one with the river) aren't as cutoff-prone as most good CoH maps.

like semois?

And although you can be cut off in CoH 2, the maps we have (especially that crappy one with the river) aren't as cutoff-prone as most good CoH maps.

True, but I doubt coh2 gameplay will ever be as prone to cut-offs as vcoh's, no matter the map...

like semois?

Yeah, Semois has a cutoff for each +16 munitions and a cutoff outside each base.

I thought of another thing that makes CoH 2 feel like DoW 2 - it doesn't have jump troops to tie up suppression squads, but it does have true sight, which lets a single squad of infantry sneak up on a suppression squad and force the retreat. In CoH it was a lot harder to use just one squad to get the jump on an MG-42 and force it off, but in DoW 2 you could use cloaking squads or jump squads to go on a solo mission to take out the suppression squad, and true sight lets you do that more easily in CoH 2.

CoH2 feels like DoW2 only because of the engine! Engine is basically the same, a bit updated but feels the same as in dow2. Anything other than that doesnt feel like dow2.

nah, I've smacked down bitches by going for cut offs. Manpower income is just a tad too high at 300mp/m at the start.

Yeah, Semois has a cutoff for each +16 munitions and a cutoff outside each base.

I thought of another thing that makes CoH 2 feel like DoW 2 - it doesn't have jump troops to tie up suppression squads, but it does have true sight, which lets a single squad of infantry sneak up on a suppression squad and force the retreat. In CoH it was a lot harder to use just one squad to get the jump on an MG-42 and force it off, but in DoW 2 you could use cloaking squads or jump squads to go on a solo mission to take out the suppression squad, and true sight lets you do that more easily in CoH 2.

but your fuel is still adjacent to your main base and see those straws stop clutching at them if the MG team can't see that one squad, that one squad can't see the MG team. You still have to flank and scout for positions.

CoH2 feels like DoW2 only because of the engine! Engine is basically the same, a bit updated but feels the same as in dow2. Anything other than that doesnt feel like dow2.

How so? If anything vcoh's and dow2's engines share more in common than coh2's and dow2's.

Atleast, that's the impression I got from playing and reading about the games.

but your fuel is still adjacent to your main base and see those straws stop clutching at them if the MG team can't see that one squad, that one squad can't see the MG team. You still have to flank and scout for positions.

? I'm just telling you why the game feels like DoW 2 to me - it's not "clutching at straws" because I'm reporting subjective feelings, it's not like my evidence can be incorrect.

Of course once the squad can see the MG, the MG can see the squad, but MGs can only shoot in limited arcs of fire so if you get a squad behind them they usually have to retreat.

And yes, Semois has the fuel next to the main base, but I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean.

Of course once the squad can see the MG, the MG can see the squad, but MGs can only shoot in limited arcs of fire so if you get a squad behind them they usually have to retreat.

And yes, Semois has the fuel next to the main base, but I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean.

that still occurs regardless of true sight, you still need to know the position of the MG crew to execute a flank.

the main fuel on semois is directly connected to the player's base and it can easily be secured with an op or even a bit of wire funneled towards the base MGs and since fuel is required for teching this makes it difficult to slow down their tech with cut offs.

the best way to do slow their tech is to pressure them with VPs and inflict unit losses so they are spending their manpower on reinforcements and not on tech.