OKW tech costs

At the end of March, Relic released the patch where they increased the teching costs for the Soviets and Ostheer. I liked the idea of the patch, but it did have several consequences. One of the consequences was that it was often more advantageous to stall until you got an off map call in, instead of paying the now hefty teching fee. This meta (as far as I know) is acknowledged as a problem by relic and should hopefully be fixed soon. One popular fix would be to require a certain minimum amount of teching before certain call ins are used.

If that change (or anything along those lines) were to occur, I think there will be a problem with the OKW, namely, its distinct lack of teching costs. Currently this issue isn't very noticeable, since call ins don't have a teching cost either, but it is a problem. I think it is crazy that the OKW can tech to a tank hunter vehicle for 40 fuel. In the same vein, a panther that comes out with a tech cost of 120 fuel is too fast in my opinion.

To add insult to injury, the already cheap buildings have highly functional abilities, unlike any other tech building (a similar point could be made about the US free units, but that is for another topic). Unfortunately, the fact that these buildings do provide essential functions in the army means that I don't think it is plausible to increase the up front cost.

Therefore, I propose that there should be an upgrade in each building which unlocks the better units (similar to the Panzer Elite). Alternatively, there could 2 upgrades in the HQ building which unlocks the 2nd and 3rd units in all the call in buildings. These upgrades wouldn't have to bring them completely in line with all the other teams' teching costs (partially taking into account their slower fuel income), they just need to increase it above where it is currently.

As it stands, OKW is the only faction that isn't regularly relying on off map call ins. Despite this, they are still able to remain competitive. I don't think you can admit there is a problem with the call in meta without acknowledging this too.

Lift fuel penalty, and Im fine with this. If not, then nope.

That sounds to me like they got OKW right. Relic already has noted they want to change the call in system to make regular teching competitive. It is not an OKW OP problem its an every other faction problem

You forgot that OKW buildings are much more vulnerable.
I don't see any problem with them, let's see what happens with the next patch.

I think that's intended to go with their lower fuel income. Easy access to unit, but relatively more punishing fuel income which (along with vet 5) encourages preservation.

I don't think that's bad design. In fact, I think it works well in game and OKW vehicles on the whole seem functional and balanced. They are usually very good but losing them is a more crippling blow. Consider also that the trucks are immobile and relatively fragile, an OKW player getting pushed off the map could lose his buildings which other factions don't really have to worry about.

In fact, I daresay the OKW's bevy of powerful elite infantry is more of a problem than its cheap teching structure.

Lift fuel penalty, and Im fine with this. If not, then nope.

+1


Okw does get a panther out in about 16 minutes if they hold their fuel and a large part of the map.

How are they gonna do that without hurtung themselves ? While volks and püppchen will keep shermans/t34s at bay , you will bleed and you will lose mapcontrol in the meantime. and 4 minutes ( as 12 minutes is easily the time medium tanks come out ) is a long time in coh2 midgame.


And then if they get a panther its not like they got a tank that performs very well as AI.

Lift fuel penalty, and Im fine with this. If not, then nope.

My understanding is that the fuel penalty is compensated by the fact that OKW gets 5 levels of vet. Less units, but able to get more out of the units they have. Its not much of a "penalty" if they paying 40 fuel (less if you consider that some of the cost goes to building function), for something the soviets need 160 fuel to get access to.

That sounds to me like they got OKW right. Relic already has noted they want to change the call in system to make regular teching competitive. It is not an OKW OP problem its an every other faction problem

Fair enough. If Relic's fix to the call in problem is to reverse their March patch and reduce the teching costs of the other teams, in order to make the main tech competitive, then there wouldn't be a problem. I hope that isn't the fix though. I like the idea of the March patch, namely to increase the period in which infantry and light vehicles are on the field and effective before armor.

I don't think that's bad design. In fact, I think it works well in game and OKW vehicles on the whole seem functional and balanced. They are usually very good but losing them is a more crippling blow.

I agree the vehicles are competitive at the moment. The problem, I think, is that the vehicles that they are competitive against are the call ins. If all call ins are nerfed by requiring teching (a good change imo), you are effectively nerfing every team except the OKW.

You could say that I should wait to see if that is what they will actually do in the patch first. I would just rather not have to wait several more months for another fix to what I see as a foreseeable problem.

Consider also that the trucks are immobile and relatively fragile, an OKW player getting pushed off the map could lose his buildings which other factions don't really have to worry about.

There is nothing forcing the OKW to place their buildings on the field. The risk of having a building destroyed is off set by the advantage of having the building on the field. Besides which, I haven't suggested raising the upfront cost, so the building could still be replaced for the same price (and if the upgrade was purchased before, it would still be now).

Okw does get a panther out in about 16 minutes if they hold their fuel and a large part of the map.

How are they gonna do that without hurtung themselves ? While volks and püppchen will keep shermans/t34s at bay , you will bleed and you will lose mapcontrol in the meantime. and 4 minutes ( as 12 minutes is easily the time medium tanks come out ) is a long time in coh2 midgame.

You're right. They will bleed and hurt themselves if they hold out for a panther as their first vehicle. Is that a problem though? They have 2 anti tank vehicles that can come out a lot sooner than a panther. If the Ostheer were to hold out and not get any tanks until a panther (imagine panthers were good), they would be in the exact same boat of having bled.

Okw does get a panther out in about 16 minutes if they hold their fuel and a large part of the map.

How are they gonna do that without hurtung themselves ? While volks and püppchen will keep shermans/t34s at bay , you will bleed and you will lose mapcontrol in the meantime. and 4 minutes ( as 12 minutes is easily the time medium tanks come out ) is a long time in coh2 midgame.

OKW has the best infantry in the game, you really don't need any kind of vehicle support to deal with other faction infantry (atleast if you pick a doctrine with an infantry call-in, the two current commanders that don't have an overpowered call-in are quite a bit weaker off). Allies on the other hand are very much forced to get anti-inf vehicles against OKW because they just can't compete otherwise, making Panther as first vehicle quite a good choice as it'll still appear before the 10cp stuff that could potentially overrun your volk shrek AT.

And then if they get a panther its not like they got a tank that performs very well as AI.

OKW Panther MGs have a combined DPS higher than an LMG gren squad. It might not kill anything with the main gun but the MGs bleed squads quite heavily.

You forgot that OKW buildings are much more vulnerable.

Nobody is forcing you to place them outside your base, a base sector that happens to have the best defenses of all 4 factions.

FlakHQ has 1920 hp while making all infantry and light vehicle use near it impossible for the opponent. Soviet T3/T4 and Ostheer T3/T4 have 2000hp
T1/T2 trucks have 1600hp. Soviet T1/T2 and Ostheer T1/T2 have 1500hp

The only reason they're more vulnerable is because you keep placing them so badly that opponents can fire at them.

Lift fuel penalty, and Im fine with this. If not, then nope.

+1