Thought about the Penal and Guards Infantry

Before you read this, I must say that English is not my native Language so there could be grammar mistake, wrong writing in this post. if this post cause you trouble understanding than I say sorry in advance.

Hello, I believe this is my first post ever in our forum expect posting replay. Like all of you, I like Company of Heroes 2 - really I am. I like the way Relic design the Shock Troops, Conscript, Grenadiers or even Panzer Grenadier.

it's just 1 little thing that have always bug me from the very start of this game: Guards and Penal Battalion. I know that most of you have knowledge about them in real life so I will skip the boring explain shit.

My question is: Have it ever bother you guys the way Penal Battalion being design in this game ? Why would Relic give a bunch of " no rank infantry " with good weapon such as SVT-40 ?


In my opinion:

1) Guards infantry should be place in Tier 1, replace all of their Mosin Nagant with SVT-40 and if you upgrade them with " battle pack " , it will give them 2 PRTS + 2 DP-28 LMG. ( I mean if Panzer Grenadier is the main infantry for German in tier 2 that can be upgrade with Panzersherck than Guards should be the same ? )

2) Penal should be something a bit like ostruppen and conscript:

- Received more damage from the enemies than other troop ( Because they wear dark color easier to spot )

- Can do good damage in medium range and only equip with Mosin Nagant ( Penal Battalion should not have SVT-40 )

- Weaker than conscript ( less equip than other troops because they are Penal Battalion )

- Still have the " big bomb " because most of their mission are suicidal anyway.


What is your opinion? I know some of you will say about balance and stuff. No no, let's ignore that part of the game right now ( pretend this game is just single play) , just talk about the design of Penal Battalion.

What does Relic think when they let Penal Batalion being a main infantry unit and give them good weapon when in real life, Penal is just a small number of the Red Army and never got that good weapons.

I know that COH2 Campaign is shit but the way they design Penal Infantry in this game never satisfy me

well, do not put on your propoganda sheeth and think that penal battalions are "suicide troops".

No no no no no, most of the time penal battalions were normal soldiers, that did some offenses and have been punished for it.

Usually, penal battalions were capably lead, and they also took the highest casualties, because they were given the hardests tasks.

Penals should just get a new voice and get renamed to "Infantry Troops" and that would be all that is necessary.

By that logic, it would go:

Infantry Troops: Soldiers that have been in the Red Army since before the War with Germany. They are well trained and armed with SVT's, which were originally slated to become the new Service Rifle until Germany invaded and Mosin production was ramped up..

Conscript Troops: Soldiers recruited during and after Barbarossa in a time of desperation. These soldiers are lesser trained and skilled, and are armed with Mosin-Nagants due to the simplicity and low cost of the rifle, which was needed to equip many new soldiers.

i don't think a infantry squad, no matter how experienced, was ever fully equipped with SVT's

Penals should just get a new voice and get renamed to "Infantry Troops" and that would be all that is necessary.

By that logic, it would go:

Infantry Troops: Soldiers that have been in the Red Army since before the War with Germany. They are well trained and armed with SVT's, which were originally slated to become the new Service Rifle until Germany invaded and Mosin production was ramped up..

Conscript Troops: Soldiers recruited during and after Barbarossa in a time of desperation. These soldiers are lesser trained and skilled, and are armed with Mosin-Nagants due to the simplicity and low cost of the rifle, which was needed to equip many new soldiers.

But the Guards and Shock troops are already supposed to be the professional soldiers.

Imo Penals should be reworked (not commenting on proposition, just general opinion) and used more (maybe remove flamerthrower or something like that, price configuration etc.), they are way too cool to be left out But buff Pgrens armor back to 1.2 or 1.1

Guards are core infantry, yet doctrinal. They're also shit.
Penals are non-doctrinal but manage to be even more shit than Guards.

If Soviets would have just one casual-approved Infantry unit that could A-Move the shit out of everything like the Grenadier, the Panzer Grenadier or the Assault Gren or the German Mortar this game would be radically improved.

Or not, it would be even more cheesy bullshit for casuals aka people who play Ostheer.

But the Guards and Shock troops are already supposed to be the professional soldiers.

They're Elite Infantry, Soviet has no General Infantry. Everyone is either a Conscript, a Crewman, an Engineer, a Penal Soldier, or an Elite Soldier. Soviet literally has no General Infantry in that way!

It's as if the Red Army didn't exist until the Germans invaded, and they scrapped together a massive force of peasants to act as man-shields to stall the enemy while they trained up Snipers, Guards, and Shock Troops, then deployed them with the man-shields. And presumably due to their skill, Penals are Guards / Shocks that tried to ditch or made an unflattering remark about Stalin's mustache

Guards are core infantry, yet doctrinal. They're also shit.
Penals are non-doctrinal but manage to be even more shit than Guards.

If Soviets would have just one casual-approved Infantry unit that could A-Move the shit out of everything like the Grenadier, the Panzer Grenadier or the Assault Gren or the German Mortar this game would be radically improved.

Or not, it would be even more cheesy bullshit for casuals aka people who play Ostheer.

Just a look at your sig tells me that you must be a butthurt soviet fanboy.

Play Germans for once. Please.

The bias is strong.

Penals aren't shit by any means. Their flamer is one of the best anti infantry weapons in the game. A scout car penal flamer combo is a devastating combo in the right hands.

I'm a Soviet only player btw.

maybe in coh2 all the professional soldiers are dead!
it was probably likely in real life!

I too believe that guards should replace penals. This way the special rifle command will have some at.

Penals are very odd anyway. They don't fit any role. Remove them from the game entirely.

I think it could be interesting to have upgradeable penals. It'd be a reason not to spam conscripts.

Otherwise mid-late game penals have nothing to do. No anti-tank grenade, no AT weapon - They become a bit obsolete... Upgrades woulda make them more useful for the full game.

But no need to make them OP. If penals have been upgraded to flamethrower, they shouldn't be able to get LMG too. It should be an EITHER/OR, not a HAVE-ALL-THE-WEAPON-TYPES!

I say take away their flamethrower, give them something else.

In the beta all doctrines from Soviets had Guards or Shocks that replaced penals at 1cp. Therefore you couldn't build penals at all unless you built them right away. People (including me) didn't like how 1 unit is completely replaced by a doctrine so we voted to changed it so that Guards and shocks are call-in.

IMO Penals weren't thought out well at all, it doesn't seem to fit into any role and is just... there. I wonder if Relic can do a redesign on both factions instead of giving us more OP commanders.

Ostheer doesn't really need anything redesigned, there's nothing in it that I look at and think "This makes no sense". Soviet on the other hand I do think that because they have no normal troops, only elites, prisoners, conscripts, and workers.

Penals have high damage output, so in the early stages of the game they are effective against grenadiers. They always remain as good anti infantry/buildings(fast way to destroy caches if you have the munitions). I build just one of them in the early stages before grenadiers get LMGs.

They probably should have some form of late game upgrade. No reason to ever make them over call ins during mid-late.

Don't they get Flamers as an upgrade?

No argument that Guards/Cons are a better unit in the later stages of the game, of course.

What range are the SVTs best at now, mid? I know it got changed but not sure to what.


I sometimes use an occasional penal, and the DPS is quite nice and can catch players off guard, same for the satchel. Also great for countering ass grens or PGs, esspecially with flamer.

The SVT is best at close range, slightly better than the Mosin at mid range, and about the same at long range.