I made sure to google the topic in case it had been discussed recently but the only thread I could find was one from late december 2012 - march 2013, which is before the june release.
original thread: http://www.coh2.org/topic/912/mirror-match
Almost 1 year after release, can anyone give some good feed back on how mirror matches play out? I actually haven't played one yet so no idea if they are extremely gimmicky or cheesy. Any particular reason why they were never added in auto-match or considered for tournaments? I know the main argument for a lot of people is that "it doesn't make sense", or that its not historically accurate. Personally, I've always found the realism/historical accuracy argument amusing since literally next to nothing is realistic about CoH, aside from the fact its based on a real war and depicts weapons and vehicles used at the time.
From a competitive game sense, any good reasons to not add mirror matches to auto-match?
Mirror matches in auto-match/tournaments
13 Apr 2014, 17:01 PM
#1
Posts: 309
13 Apr 2014, 17:24 PM
#2
Posts: 578
Mirror matches suck hard.
They are boring and brainless if the same armys fight against each other.
I hope relic will never add mirror matches to the game.
They are boring and brainless if the same armys fight against each other.
I hope relic will never add mirror matches to the game.
13 Apr 2014, 17:26 PM
#3
Posts: 3293
well they tried it but tbh it sucks for coh2.
the way the asymetical balance works it makes it not work.
the way the asymetical balance works it makes it not work.
Failure is always an option. 
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and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!
13 Apr 2014, 17:36 PM
#4
Posts: 879
I think Ostheer vs Ostheer is interesting and makes the commander choice much more relevant than in normal matches. Plus I love all the additional voiceovers they did for bro-on-bro action, they talk about traitor PziVs and such...
It all comes down to micro, army composition and RNG, if that's boring, so be it, I really enjoyed the mirror matches I did in one of the early tournaments.
It all comes down to micro, army composition and RNG, if that's boring, so be it, I really enjoyed the mirror matches I did in one of the early tournaments.
13 Apr 2014, 17:39 PM
#5
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Mirror matches suck hard.
They are boring and brainless if the same armys fight against each other.
I hope relic will never add mirror matches to the game.
Pretty much this.
Like mirror matches? Play custom maps or extremely boring tournaments as the one we've had in the past.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
13 Apr 2014, 17:45 PM
#6
Posts: 309
I think Ostheer vs Ostheer is interesting and makes the commander choice much more relevant than in normal matches. Plus I love all the additional voiceovers they did for bro-on-bro action, they talk about traitor PziVs and such...
It all comes down to micro, army composition and RNG, if that's boring, so be it, I really enjoyed the mirror matches I did in one of the early tournaments.
Really? Haha that's actually really interesting. To your second point, I thought just as much that's what it would be like, micro and tactics having a much larger impact than anything. A 1v1 engagement between two P4's would come down to RNG no doubt, however the player who manages to get a Pak/shrek squad into position will obviously out play the opponnent, and that's just one possible event. I'm struggling to see why mirror matches would be "boring" and "brainless".
@Affe please explain why you found mirror matches boring and brainless.
e:
Pretty much this.
Like mirror matches? Play custom maps or extremely boring tournaments as the one we've had in the past.
Yes but WHY was it boring, I wasn't around at the time and only recently started playing and haven't had the chance to play any mirror matches. Please state your reasons.
13 Apr 2014, 17:52 PM
#7
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Yes but WHY was it boring, I wasn't around at the time and only recently started playing and haven't had the chance to play any mirror matches. Please state your reasons.
Thats easy to explain.
Try to imagine 2 bricks being bashed together.
This is what mirror match games look like.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
13 Apr 2014, 17:56 PM
#8
Posts: 2779
Thats easy to explain.
Try to imagine 2 bricks being bashed together.
This is what mirror match games look like.
Only applied in Starcraft
Ostheer mirror could work.
Soviet mirror, fuck no.
13 Apr 2014, 18:34 PM
#9
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
People need to give reasons for their opinions. If you don't do that your posts are pretty meaningless.
I actually like mirror matches, since it adds more variety to the game. It's the same gameplay mechanics as soviet vs ostheer except that micro is even more important in a lot of cases. T70 vs T70 is hilarious and the best player wins. Conscript vs conscript is also fun because you know you've got the same chance to kill the other guy as he's got to kill you.
I actually like mirror matches, since it adds more variety to the game. It's the same gameplay mechanics as soviet vs ostheer except that micro is even more important in a lot of cases. T70 vs T70 is hilarious and the best player wins. Conscript vs conscript is also fun because you know you've got the same chance to kill the other guy as he's got to kill you.
That idiot thought he won. In fact, he was wrong. Completely mistaken.No M3 he what things are not，just one moron.
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
13 Apr 2014, 18:42 PM
#10
Posts: 3709 | Subs: 2
I actually like mirror matches, since it adds more variety to the game. It's the same gameplay mechanics as soviet vs ostheer except that micro is even more important in a lot of cases. T70 vs T70 is hilarious and the best player wins. Conscript vs conscript is also fun because you know you've got the same chance to kill the other guy as he's got to kill you.
No you don't, and that's where the issue is. COH2 is based on random events a lot, you will never know who's going to win a mirror 1vs1 of same units (assuming equal conditions) and that can decide the whole game.
13 Apr 2014, 18:44 PM
#11
Posts: 879
I have done a couple Sov vs Sov matches and it really just brings out the flaws in the faction. The gimicky nature of the army is magnified 100x in mirrors, because you're even more reliant on commander abilities than usual. But it is playable. Ramming IS2s with T34s is a good time...
HappyPhace, or anyone else, if u want to do some Ostheer vs Ostheer for funsies, add Noise of Carpet, I'm always up for some actual fun during this terrible patch!
HappyPhace, or anyone else, if u want to do some Ostheer vs Ostheer for funsies, add Noise of Carpet, I'm always up for some actual fun during this terrible patch!
13 Apr 2014, 18:51 PM
#12
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
No you don't, and that's where the issue is. COH2 is based on random events a lot, you will never know who's going to win a mirror 1vs1 of same units (assuming equal conditions) and that can decide the whole game.
No, you do have an equal chance, but its decided by micro and RNG. The RNG issue is present all the time. If you follow that line of logic, then the whole game can always be decided on RNG. Assuming equal skill and balance, it doesn't matter whether it's a mirror or not, it's all about the dice.
Also, equal infantry fights only exist in a vacuum, like if you spawn two units into green cover. In a game, one guy has to engage the other and it is rare that cover and HP will be identical when both units stop moving.
That idiot thought he won. In fact, he was wrong. Completely mistaken.No M3 he what things are not，just one moron.
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
13 Apr 2014, 19:02 PM
#13
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
i dislike them because of how the asymmetry has been done. germans have less hp, so they need to deal more damage to make up for it. this means a german vs german engagement has very high dps and low hp for both sides. that makes it go much faster than a soviet vs soviet fight where they have high hp and lower dps.
snipers are another example. german sniper has a higher rate of fire to combat 6 man squads. a german sniper against 4 man squads is much more powerful.
they may be fun occasionally for a laugh, but the units obviously werent balanced with mirrors in mind.
snipers are another example. german sniper has a higher rate of fire to combat 6 man squads. a german sniper against 4 man squads is much more powerful.
they may be fun occasionally for a laugh, but the units obviously werent balanced with mirrors in mind.
13 Apr 2014, 20:14 PM
#14
Posts: 879
Wooof - that's kinda why Ostheer vs Ostheer is fun as hell. It is faster and more intense.
But snipers..yeah. Flamenwurfer as well, basically those mirrors that went down in the first tourney were decided by whoever got flamenwurfer first.
But snipers..yeah. Flamenwurfer as well, basically those mirrors that went down in the first tourney were decided by whoever got flamenwurfer first.
13 Apr 2014, 20:37 PM
#15
Posts: 578
@Affe please explain why you found mirror matches boring and brainless.
e:
Yes but WHY was it boring, I wasn't around at the time and only recently started playing and haven't had the chance to play any mirror matches. Please state your reasons.
You guys remember the Movie Terminator 2 ? T-800(Schwarzenegger) vs T-1000(Patrick)? It was interesting because they were so different from each other.
If they made the movie T-800(Schwarzenegger) vs T-800(schwarzenegger) it wouldn t be near as interesting and epic like with the T-1000! Its the same reason why mirror-matches suck hard.
Games are only become interesting when 2 factions with different strenghts and weaknesses fight against each other.
In a match ger vs ger you know that no matter what happened ger will win.
Imagine a mortal kombat game with only liu kang as the only fighter.It would be liu kang vs liu kang all day all night.BORING.But when liu kang fights against sub-Zero, scorpion, raiden, Johnny Cage......it starts to become interesting because the fight will start to have variety with different abilitys, strenghts, weaknesses..........
Mirror matches have no variety because your mirrored enemy has the same strenghts and weaknesses like you.
14 Apr 2014, 02:41 AM
#16
Posts: 432
In mirror matchups where both players are given the same opportunities, strengths, and weaknesses, it is far more important to players to seize small advantages in controlling unit positioning, teching, exerting map control, and using abilities. These nuances are what separates good players from great players. You can't argue faction imbalance where X has late game design advantage or Y units are easymode.
14 Apr 2014, 02:59 AM
#17
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
@Affe but not the same army composition or BO.
Anyway i think that the problem is what the game is designed for. I´m seeing more limited unit and commander usage (BTW it´s not like its SO DIFFERENT from what we see normally on 1v1).
If i answer you based on this: "From a competitive game sense, any good reasons to not add mirror matches to auto-match?"
Theres no reason to not have it. But for how the game is design i don´t know if its the most attractive for the people who play it.
For someone who watches SC2 and doesnt mind with mirror matches i don´t see why it shouldnt work.
But for too many people who just like the historical context i can see a problem. Just look at the answer of the thread where it was discuss Soviet+Americans on automatch.
Anyway i think that the problem is what the game is designed for. I´m seeing more limited unit and commander usage (BTW it´s not like its SO DIFFERENT from what we see normally on 1v1).
If i answer you based on this: "From a competitive game sense, any good reasons to not add mirror matches to auto-match?"
Theres no reason to not have it. But for how the game is design i don´t know if its the most attractive for the people who play it.
For someone who watches SC2 and doesnt mind with mirror matches i don´t see why it shouldnt work.
But for too many people who just like the historical context i can see a problem. Just look at the answer of the thread where it was discuss Soviet+Americans on automatch.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
14 Apr 2014, 06:05 AM
#18
Posts: 317
I made sure to google the topic in case it had been discussed recently but the only thread I could find was one from late december 2012 - march 2013, which is before the june release.
original thread: http://www.coh2.org/topic/912/mirror-match
Almost 1 year after release, can anyone give some good feed back on how mirror matches play out? I actually haven't played one yet so no idea if they are extremely gimmicky or cheesy. Any particular reason why they were never added in auto-match or considered for tournaments? I know the main argument for a lot of people is that "it doesn't make sense", or that its not historically accurate. Personally, I've always found the realism/historical accuracy argument amusing since literally next to nothing is realistic about CoH, aside from the fact its based on a real war and depicts weapons and vehicles used at the time.
From a competitive game sense, any good reasons to not add mirror matches to auto-match?
Everyone saying it sucks hard hasn't even tried it. I have played quite a few mirrors and they are actually very fun In Coh2 and competitive as well becuase who can argue balance. In fact mirrors feel much better then the normal. Russian vs Wehr is pretty much degraded to who can get the cheesiest the fastest, while in mirrors it feels much more tactical and whits based. Its simply sad how closed minded the vocal few that dictate the direction Relics takes with their game is so pathetically closed minded because lots of great stuff essentially gets taken out of the game becuase of it. Imo these tight minded few are actually the reason why this game doesnt flourish more there is many missing maps and options for mirrors and lots of other stuff bunked from the game because they are so loud and obnoxious thats what relic listens too.
14 Apr 2014, 06:08 AM
#19
Posts: 317
well they tried it but tbh it sucks for coh2.
the way the asymetical balance works it makes it not work.
And actually no they didnt try it. Relic included it in the game but everyone(Not "everyone" just everyone in that vocal few mentioned in above post) raised such a freaking stink so bad before it was given a chance that relic took it out before release and before alpha and beta tests. So agian no it was never tried.
14 Apr 2014, 06:09 AM
#20
Posts: 317
I think Ostheer vs Ostheer is interesting and makes the commander choice much more relevant than in normal matches. Plus I love all the additional voiceovers they did for bro-on-bro action, they talk about traitor PziVs and such...
It all comes down to micro, army composition and RNG, if that's boring, so be it, I really enjoyed the mirror matches I did in one of the early tournaments.
+1 Exactly
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