after 3/25 patch: what are soviet options for winning ?

that instagib whic you are talking about its called precision shoot, and you get it at 120 mm mortar when he hits vet 1, and you pay munition

Oh I know, trust me I really do. I use it in every game and.... it does NOT kill the whole unit!
This was major concern from OH players and of course, pro-German Relic fixed this right away. Same patch when shturmovik got nerfed.

Prove me of I'm wrong.
Create a threat and post reply, and on my hand I post mine.

+1 VonIvan. Pretty disturbing, but point well made.

boy....u r a rude one. i haven't really had time to play yet. i have merely read the patch notes and read some forum threads. i was hoping someone would actually be helpful with some ideas, so i could start working on a new B.O. today, and avoid wasting my time on units that just don't work anymore in the current form of the game.

please keep your rude responses to yourself.

Let me get this straight. you've said in your first post that everything russian is too weak, and a whole pile of sov fanboys have said the game is imba as F***, and yet you haven't even tried playing yet to test the new meta. pretty sure thats the end of logic on this thread.

He confirmed that soviets aren t designed to be a flexible army.They are designed to just spam a type of unit over and over and over again until the enemy gets bored to death.

In starcraft 2 there are 3 races and all 3 are flexible without any limitations in there tech tree and they are all very different from each other.In CoH2 one army is extreme flexible and the other not. This is game design "made by relic".

Affe I didn't see you post hardly at all before the patch came out, since then I've seen nothing but complaining and fire and brimstone from you. Have you even bothered the try out the new patch yet? Or are you just regurgitating all of the stuff you have read on the forums and the patch notes. Seriously, you need to stop whining. Every post is negative and unconstructive.

Armor decrease on units has no impact on tanks like IS2 or KV8 or even the mortar, unless you're talking about the coax guns which isn't exactly their selling point. Armor is only effective vs small arms fire, not explosions or flame. Grenadiers are exactly as weak to these units as they were prepatch. They're actually more weak to infantry now because they don't shrug off shots at all. Their lethality is substantially higher but survivability for guards/shocks/pgrens/grens was just straight nerfed. Not complaining either.

Not being able to build both tiers will impact exactly 0 games for me in 2v2 or 1v1. I have never built both tiers, though I guess in bigger games this might be more relevant. Soviets T3/T4 have always been too expensive to tech both so this doesn't really change anything imo. If I feel like I've had the edge and want early pressure I'll go T3 and if I'm worried about heavy armor I'll go T4. I'm not really defending lack of options, but realistically this is how it has always worked. It being more expensive doesn't really change much.

Pioneers do need a minor DPS decrease and conscripts could probably use the RoF increase that riflemen got in vCoH when at medium/close range so that they make up for closing the distance, but otherwise it's remarkably close to vCoH volks/rifles dynamic. Which is great.

It feels like most soviet players (I'm guilty of this as well) are so used to 4-5x cons into some armor into victory. It looks like this meta doesn't exist anymore and you're going to need mortars and machine guns and whatever else to supplement the force. Ignoring that and trying to make the old builds work is just an effort in frustration. Give it time to develop, be flexible. Then make suggestions.

Quote for truth man, thanks for the post! I'd also like to add that the retreat modifier was a nice touch, it has made keeping squads alive much easier despite the much faster casualty rate before retreat.

at least they got rid of some of the RNG


edit: jesus christ, i just realized how relevant that song is to coh2

Most of the posts I red here are about people who get confortable with one playing style and don't want to change it for anything in the world.
Objectively speacking, most of patches untill now tried to help soviets. The 3 PPSHs, the cost increase for AG, the fuel cost increase for german armor, and so on. I don't remember german faction players screaming histerically that this was unbalanced. They just adapted, created and used new tactics.
Of course it's so easy to stay in a spam playing mode while runing all over the map, caping, molotoving, careless related to cover. That was an easy mode playing. Easier.
The things changed, as shown in Relic video, you need to use cover and realistic tactics. Now behaviors like storming careless into enemy and owning everything are punished. Why? Because the overall TACTICAL concept it's now better.
Let me give you an example:
Why do you think AGs can "Sprint" now? It's quite simple: to have a chance to avoid being massacred by a con squad while it stays in cover and shooting at them. Of course they need to get close to implement a serious damage, and "sprint" helps them to get to optimal range while quickly traversing the red shielded areas.
You can use the cons in THE SAME WAY. You have oooraaah. More than this, when reaching the optimal distance, YOU CAN ACTUALLY EXTRACT THE GERMAN UNIT FROM COVER USING THE MOLOTOV, and put them in the following situation: move from there = die BECAUSE THEY ARE OUT OF COVER, stay = transform into a crisp and die, hit the retreat button = con squad wins teritorry.
I'm not saying use molotovs and oorah every time. For instance, I use oorah to traverse the red shielded areas and molotovs when I see there is no other chance to kill/force back the enemy.
Yes, it will be some more amo spending, but the amo consumption will be balanced - german upgrades are MORE EXPENSIVE, remember?!?
I don't mind being punished if I used my troops incorectly. I lost AGs in early game to conscripts in this patch, BECAUSE of this changes. But I did not COMPLAIN all over the place, just stayed and think and figured out a way to make it work.

THAT is what you need to do. Think and find a way. Is that hard?

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a thread asking for help with soviet play just gets spammed with L2P comments by German fanboys?

German troops are efficient when they are covered by wall ... so sov have to make them moove, by molotov, grenades .. and it will be pretty easy to kill pgrenn as shown at the video and this what i saw in my gameplays yesterday ...

Objectively speacking, most of patches untill now tried to help soviets. The 3 PPSHs, the cost increase for AG, the fuel cost increase for german armor, and so on. I don't remember german faction players screaming histerically that this was unbalanced. They just adapted, created and used new tactics.

I do remember them crying hysterically. They are still crying about all these things over 6 months after they happened. In completely unrelated threads at that.

I stand by original post in this thread that the way to win as soviets this patch is to pick germans. I can't see myself losing to anything soviets can do this patch, except maybe good old sniper spam when I start from langres north and soviets from south. Even that's kinda questionable because the 222 will rape guards and M3s now

@Aerohank - "It gives the same delay on tech, but doesn't screw over the ability for soviets combined arms more than it already was."
Strange, I thought “combined arms” concept did not exist for soviet faction, just “spam” concept. Sorry for that, could not abstain , take it as a joke.

@Cruzz - Now I am really sad a player of your caliber thinks this way. Like I said, I am convinced that the soviet play is now much harder than it was, but I wouldn't say it's impossible to win.
But maybe, we all are making unconsistent suppositions while not sufficiently trying the new gameplay.
I'll play more, both factions in equal measure and come back after 2 weeks. By then, I am sure we'll all have a more consistent image on the game.

The first few games I played I thought the same as the majority here. Soveits are weak, Germans are OP ect.

But having stuck by soviets through a good few losses I have started to win and understand the new system. Use cover, fire and move, set up intelligent flanks, pull back asap when left in the open, use uraaah! to retreat to cover rather than to charge at the Germans, never use roads to move infantry unless you are certain its clear.

As for shocks make use of the extremely cheap smoke grenade (15 muni) to close the distance on grens, once they get through the smoke and close grenadiers are toast.

The game has changed drastically but now I believe its for the better, Coh2 has just become a very realistic strategy game IMO,

I am enjoying the patch now but I agree its hard to adjust after nearly a year of being used to cover not really being a factor.

Stick with it guys!

The first few games I played I thought the same as the majority here. Soveits are weak, Germans are OP ect.

But having stuck by soviets through a good few losses I have started to win and understand the new system. Use cover, fire and move, set up intelligent flanks, pull back asap when left in the open, use uraaah! to retreat to cover rather than to charge at the Germans, never use roads to move infantry unless you are certain its clear.

As for shocks make use of the extremely cheap smoke grenade (15 muni) to close the distance on grens, once they get through the smoke and close grenadiers are toast.

The game has changed drastically but now I believe its for the better, Coh2 has just become a very realistic strategy game IMO,

I am enjoying the patch now but I agree its hard to adjust after nearly a year of being used to cover not really being a factor.

Stick with it guys!

+1.

Nice one. Congrats!

Show Spoiler

btw After Patch:
Early Game: German Infantry rocks everything (not only Pioneers)
Mid Game: Cant get enough fuel for Soviet t3/t4 and the only nice option is to get Paks to destroy scout Cars which doing more dmg now too
Late Game: German Tanks will come to kill you and your best option is to spam Paks or dying like a nasty Pig with 1 su85/t34/76

I stated this at the other thread as well and I will try to emphasize this here also. The problem is exactly that which was already written yesterday afternoon by SturmTigerTrafalgar (I'm just showing the most important part).

I played around 4-5 games yesterday and this was the biggest problem. Pioneers are just too good for start. Soviet player will not have enough fuel at the point that Ostheer already gets tanks out. Harassment is really REALLY difficult now that every battle requires 2TO1 superiority. German player can easily build fuel caches/opel trucks etc and it is really difficult to do anything to that by Soviets because it's keeping busy to just hold on with the already captured places.

At one game we managed to get fuel income somehow in order and killed few Panthers and even one Tiger (however my last SU85 went down killing that Tiger). And we thought that we were almost equal at this point. Well then we just felt stupid when 3 tigers rolled over from the middle. At the end when we saw their side of the map which was just covering places which pump fuel (caches, opel trucks). They didn't have to sacrifice that much manpower to keep the pressure because they were sitting comfortably at their places + doing some capturing to our fuel all the time.

And I do think I use combined arms quite creatively along with covers. And also I know that I need a lot of practice of new mechanics but the point is that combination of Pios with MP40 and Grens with nice longer range it is just difficult to keep the important points at early game.

Not trying to rant here, I'm being constructive here and address my opinion about the problems. The most ridiculous part was that yesterday a lot of streamers played with Ostheer. Maybe tried few games with Soviets but not much. Only good game (that I witnessed, I'm not saying it was THE ONLY game) was played yesterday evening by Imperial Dane. He played really impressive game with Soviets.

Imo the only way right now is to use Guards motor commander. Previously it was the most OP, now its just only viable option.

Only good game (that I witnessed, I'm not saying it was THE ONLY game) was played yesterday evening by Imperial Dane. He played really impressive game with Soviets.

I believe that game was vs myself when he used Partisans extremely well to flank my positions, forced me back and managed to get an early T70 which ultimately finished me off due to no fuel income.

I tried out his tactic in my next game and found that Partisan Tactics is a great commander after this patch.

I am a soviet player, never played german except for a few times against one of my buddy that needed practice as soviet. I won a few games and lost a few since the patch. My units feel much more fragile now but if you use cover and use everything you got, you can manage to win. I find it a bit harder than before. For that reason I decided to try playing germans to see if it was as hard as soviet to play. I went 2 gren 2 assgren 1 mg 1 mortar and fast p4. I won the game and the player didn't play noobish or anything, he went 3 cons 1 shock 1 mg 1 mortar fast t34.

When I lacked firepower, I sent my pio to the front and it seems to have turned the battle in my favor. Overall, I think penal battalion need a slight buff, since going conscript spam isn't as good as before. Buffing penals will make new strat viable. The main problem with penals is no AT. You get increased close damage, but no AT later in the game. Or you can go conscripts, get AT, but doesn't do much damage until pssh, which is ammunition heavy.

I believe that game was vs myself when he used Partisans extremely well to flank my positions, forced me back and managed to get an early T70 which ultimately finished me off due to no fuel income.

I tried out his tactic in my next game and found that Partisan Tactics is a great commander after this patch.

Actually it was.

Yea man he used them well, I think it's his specialty. Too bad it's also DLC commander.