Bunkers need something.
17 Feb 2014, 00:07 AM
#1
Posts: 13
I'm tired of seeing all kinds of games with the Germans putting down more bunkers than the Maginot Line and winning because it takes resources to deal with the inexhaustible supply of shovels and sandbags. I'm fine with bunkers as a concept, but the spamming of bunkers gets really old and I don't think it is what relic intends ( I hope). I'd really like to see some consequences for putting down a blue million of them, like when you put an MG/forward reinforce/medics, it costs a little pop cap or something. Their cost coupled with the quick build time means that I can't even focus down a pio squad building it under fire from any kind of range a lot of the time. I also don't think that assault grens should be able to build them at all, grens I can take or leave, but assault grens are already early game monsters and when that monster can build a bunker on your cutoff it gets dumb really fast.
Not Constructive: LOL FU NOOBS OSTWINZ 2 XPENSY -Noun
17 Feb 2014, 00:46 AM
#2
Posts: 170
Yeah, its really annoying that the soviets cant get mortars, flamethrowers or satchel charges!
Seriously bunkers are only a problem in 3v3 and 4v4, but everything is wrong in 3v3 and 4v4...
Seriously bunkers are only a problem in 3v3 and 4v4, but everything is wrong in 3v3 and 4v4...
17 Feb 2014, 00:57 AM
#3
1 
Posts: 889 | Subs: 1
Mortars and flamethrowers take forever to kill bunkers unfortunately.
17 Feb 2014, 01:23 AM
#4
Posts: 2779
How many second a Zis takes to take down a bunker?
17 Feb 2014, 01:57 AM
#5
Posts: 879
Not long, but they are a huge problem on the stupid chokepoint maps like Rzhever, Derp River, etc.
I think they should get more HP but a longer build time. I usually spot them but with two Grens on them you can't stop them from going up fast enough even if you're just on the other side of the screen.
I think they should get more HP but a longer build time. I usually spot them but with two Grens on them you can't stop them from going up fast enough even if you're just on the other side of the screen.
17 Feb 2014, 09:57 AM
#6
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
How many second a Zis takes to take down a bunker?
How many players can afford ZIS in first 3-4 minute of the game?
Show me a single one who made it before 8.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Feb 2014, 10:08 AM
#7
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
How many players can afford ZIS in first 3-4 minute of the game?
Show me a single one who made it before 8.
Technically every single player can afford a ZiS 60 seconds into the game, that being the time it takes to build T2, and can own one (I think) a minute after that
It's not uncommon for players to build a Zis before 8 minutes to deal with a halftrack if I'm not wrong- I do that on occasion as well.
17 Feb 2014, 11:13 AM
#8
Posts: 1003
Technically every single player can afford a ZiS 60 seconds into the game, that being the time it takes to build T2, and can own one (I think) a minute after that
It's not uncommon for players to build a Zis before 8 minutes to deal with a halftrack if I'm not wrong- I do that on occasion as well.
And you easy lost map control and game. And in many time decrew ZiS-3 also.
Bunkers are great and cheap.
I destroy them with guards. Demo charge is expensive, then bunker and you must gain control in bunker location.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
17 Feb 2014, 11:52 AM
#9
2 
Posts: 2181
Flamers are so weak against bunkers, it's pathetic. When there is no other option I skip the flamethrower upgrade and try to place a democharge.
17 Feb 2014, 11:57 AM
#10
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Flamers doing way too little dmg to bunker is the most valid concern here.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Feb 2014, 12:04 PM
#11
Posts: 1003
Flamers need chance destroy MG upgrade in bunker. Similar destroying upper MG on tanks.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
17 Feb 2014, 14:21 PM
#12
Posts: 134
Potential "fixes" in my mind:
have flamers do massive DMG to bunkers
Have upgrades for bunkers have a pop hit (maybe 8-10)
Allow gunners to be killed
Give soviet mortars increased accuracy vs buildings when thru have s spotter
Give soviets bunkers and make it even
As it stands now bunker spam is obnoxious lol
have flamers do massive DMG to bunkers
Have upgrades for bunkers have a pop hit (maybe 8-10)
Allow gunners to be killed
Give soviet mortars increased accuracy vs buildings when thru have s spotter
Give soviets bunkers and make it even
As it stands now bunker spam is obnoxious lol
17 Feb 2014, 15:02 PM
#13
Posts: 344
Didn't vCoH bunkers has a pissy little firing arc with their MG? I think that's the biggest issue, the CoH2 bunkers get the same arc of fire as a normal Vet0 MG42--they have a silly range and large area they can cover. In vCoH you'd need roughly twice the number of bunkers we need now in order to lock down an area.
Reinforcing and healing was also relegated to a single doctrine (defensive) or wasn't available (Vet1 WM infantry/support weapon upgrade did this; the bunkers offered medics that would go out and retrieve wounded friendly infantry from around the bunker, return them to it, and then shit out a free Grenadier squad once 4 men had been collected).
Also, muh' repair stations. Why do I need to build 40 glass Pioneers to repair a Panzer in under an hour. :'(
Reinforcing and healing was also relegated to a single doctrine (defensive) or wasn't available (Vet1 WM infantry/support weapon upgrade did this; the bunkers offered medics that would go out and retrieve wounded friendly infantry from around the bunker, return them to it, and then shit out a free Grenadier squad once 4 men had been collected).
Also, muh' repair stations. Why do I need to build 40 glass Pioneers to repair a Panzer in under an hour. :'(
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17 Feb 2014, 15:07 PM
#14
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
The way to counter bunkers is not to give the Germans the chance to sit and build them in the first place.
If they have built a Maginot Line it's your own fault for letting them
If they have built a Maginot Line it's your own fault for letting them
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
17 Feb 2014, 15:17 PM
#15
Posts: 134
The way to counter bunkers is not to give the Germans the chance to sit and build them in the first place.
If they have built a Maginot Line it's your own fault for letting them
This is the funniest thing I've read in a while. Don't allow them to put up bunkers? Why didn't I think about this!?!?! Oh wait maybe its because the axis mg bests the soviet mg to the choke point and cocks it up long enough (~12seconds) for 2 German squads to throw up a bunker. And ince the first one is down they cover each other.
Also with regards to countering them luckily sovs have early guards to handle it ... Oh wait that got changed too hahaha. Pro balance!
17 Feb 2014, 15:57 PM
#16
Posts: 1355
+1 to the OP.
Something must be dane.
A few days ago a had 2 Games with the same opponent and i lost them both. His "Strat" was, 3 Ass...Grens (yea, Ass..Grens) into a bloob directly to my cutoff(s). So i had to retreat and when i got back on the field he had placed bunkers to the chokepoint (s) . I did counter them with ZISes and Mortars but in both games that cost me to much time and in the meta-game he had to much fuel so... you know.
I am not saying that this is something you can not counter. You can but you lose some in other aspect (such as mapcontrol in the early game and other things).
It is unfair that this "Strat" is only available to one side!!
Something must be dane.
A few days ago a had 2 Games with the same opponent and i lost them both. His "Strat" was, 3 Ass...Grens (yea, Ass..Grens) into a bloob directly to my cutoff(s). So i had to retreat and when i got back on the field he had placed bunkers to the chokepoint (s) . I did counter them with ZISes and Mortars but in both games that cost me to much time and in the meta-game he had to much fuel so... you know.
I am not saying that this is something you can not counter. You can but you lose some in other aspect (such as mapcontrol in the early game and other things).
It is unfair that this "Strat" is only available to one side!!
17 Feb 2014, 16:08 PM
#17
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The way to counter bunkers is not to give the Germans the chance to sit and build them in the first place.
If they have built a Maginot Line it's your own fault for letting them
Way to counter soviet mines is not to give the soviets the chance to sit and build them in the first place herp derp. And yet we have a QQ thread about them. Wonder why.
(I think bunkers are fine, they could be more susceptible to flamers and thats all).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Feb 2014, 17:06 PM
#18
Posts: 598
I thought bunkers are OP but since the Soviets have m3 scout cars, double snipers and precision strike I no longer care.
17 Feb 2014, 17:23 PM
#19
4 Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
Mortars and flamethrowers take forever to kill bunkers unfortunately.
+1
just another thing that makes soviet comeback impossible
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17 Feb 2014, 17:30 PM
#20
Posts: 194
Wow, really? Bunkers are a joke unless you've already lost. Every now and then I have a drunk 4v4 night and even there they're meh.
That being said, they should probably have a smaller arc of fire / range and they should take more damage from flamethrowers. In this game they're even made of wood instead of concrete so it makes sense from a realism standpoint as well as balance. Satchels should probably do something like 95% of their health as well.
That being said, they should probably have a smaller arc of fire / range and they should take more damage from flamethrowers. In this game they're even made of wood instead of concrete so it makes sense from a realism standpoint as well as balance. Satchels should probably do something like 95% of their health as well.
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