Why don't you take part in tournaments?

This year we're looking at how we're handling tournaments going forward and want to know how to get more of you to take part in them. So I'd like to know, why don't you participate in Company of Heroes 2 tournaments?

This is about competing, not watching. Also if you do take part in tournaments we don't need to hear from you saying that you do unless there has in the past been something that prevented you from taking part that you can talk about.

Ideally keep your answer simple. Short answers.

Examples:
- Busy on the weekends
- Don't want to lose in the first round
- Don't like CoH2's balance
- School
- Don't play multiplayer
- I only play 4v4

Also what would get you to take part in a future tournament? What could we (at Relic) do?

Same thing, keep your answers as brief and to the point as possible.

Examples:
- Have a 4v4 tournament.
- Improve balance
- Have the tournament during a weekday
- Help me get better at the game


Thanks to everyone who takes part. Finding out how to maximize the community's engagement with CoH2 tournaments is a big goal for us.

1. There's too big difference between noobs and pros in my opinion, that's how game is designed. It's not spamcrap or league of loosers where half of the community can win a tournament.

2. I think CoH2 is made for older people that are over 20 and have other stuff to do than playing computer games for the whole weekend

3. Balance also has an impact, who would like to play in tournament where he's obviously gonna rage due to RNG gods?

What could be done to have more players in tournament:

If Relic will host tournament then i suggest a rewards for all participants, R1 loosers will get 1 skin of their choice, R2 skin and commander etc... so everyone would be happy (partially ofc)

Time zones are biggest problems obviously so I suggest to do elimination tournaments first for each time zone region (USA, Europe, Asia) and then host it for all the winners

I second Barton's suggestion if two divisions couldn't be organized. What is my incentive to play a tournament with seeds if I know I won't make it past round 2? At least create small prizes for getting to the seeded player stage (usually round 2).

I play all modes, I do see good micro among some 4v4 players, but they all have complexes about 1v1, and more incentive might help get some of them in. Again, I don't think this game has a high skill cap, what separates Barton, OMGPop, etc from the 50-200 ranked 1v1 intermediate bracket is micro, multitasking, and unit preservation, not strategy or tactics. And there are surely many other COH2 players with really good CPM and micro out there...

because id get knocked out of the first round without standing a chance, id still probably have fun but... then there is also the fact that i am to busy making them

I didnt play because I dont enjoy the game in its current state.

Excessive RNG, Balance, Input Lag, and the largest being Pay2Win Commanders. The game itself doesnt reward better micro or macro.

This.

I don't play tournaments by the same reason I don't play the game anymore, and they are the ones listed above.
I'll just wait for the day Relic let modders do their job improving the game the way it should be done.

1. There's too big difference between noobs and pros in my opinion, that's how game is designed. It's not spamcrap or league of loosers where half of the community can win a tournament.

SC2 and Leauge have lots of new people winning because the esports scene is that big, not because the games are too easy. CoH2 strategy is easy mode compared to coh1 and even coh1 had a low skill ceiling compared to SC2. Top tier and high players lose to random people all the time, but SC2 players in diamond-GM probably never ever lose to someone in silver or gold.

I don't play a tournament because I don't feel my skills are good enough to play against pros.
But I do like this game very much, I enjoy team games on soviet side.
Trolling people with soviet monster weapons is fun fun fun.

SC2 and Leauge have lots of new people winning because the esports scene is that big, not because the games are too easy. CoH2 strategy is easy mode compared to coh1 and even coh1 had a low skill ceiling compared to SC2. Top tier and high players lose to random people all the time, but SC2 players in diamond-GM probably never ever lose to someone in silver or gold.

I dont think i have ever seen a post of you basilone in that you dont criticize coh2. It gets really annoying tbh. Just stop comparing a small niche game like coh2 with a blizzard title that has 100 times more players and a huge e-sport scene. Compare it with Wargame, Men of War or Planetary Annihilation.

I didnt play because I dont enjoy the game in its current state. Excessive RNG, Balance, Input Lag, and the largest being Pay2Win Commanders. The game itself doesnt reward better micro or macro.

I'd add the bad game performances regarding settings.

I think the question is directed to people who actually play coh2 but not in tournaments.

Why

- Not much interest in the game at the moment
- Don't like having to commit multiple hours straight in advance, also waiting for opponents to finish their rounds, etc
- Currently not good enough to bother, only play to win
- Not enough potential viewers if personnal games were streamed, thus less recognition and revenue potential with streaming

Changes

- Improve the core of the game to make it interesting
- Make tournaments over short period of time, 1h max each day, no waiting for next rounds
- Promote and improve the game so there's significantly more viewers potential

I dont think i have ever seen a post of you basilone in that you dont criticize coh2. It gets really annoying tbh. Just stop comparing a small niche game like coh2 with a blizzard title that has 100 times more players and a huge e-sport scene. Compare it with Wargame, Men of War or Planetary Annihilation.

He wasn't the one that was making the comparison; BartonPL was making it. BartonPL has clearly no clue about SC2 if he thinks half the community could win a tournament. If anything, this is more true for COH2 with its low skill-ceiling and RNG having such a major impact on the game.

Here is my list.

- Lag
- DLC commanders

That is all.

reason to NOT

• Why compete in a tournament with 64 people if I am not in the top 100? limited fun to expect
  
• hard for me to dedicate time AND not postpone games then, limited flexibility. But I think I need that in order to make a tournament work
  

Ideas:

• there might be a spot between a tournament on a weekend and the alltime ladder. Something like a "best player in June", dunno, sth like that. Soemthing that allows more people and gives them more flexibility. Not sure though if anybody is interested in that
  

I dont think i have ever seen a post of you basilone in that you dont criticize coh2. It gets really annoying tbh. Just stop comparing a small niche game like coh2 with a blizzard title that has 100 times more players and a huge e-sport scene. Compare it with Wargame, Men of War or Planetary Annihilation.

Comparing yourself with the best gets you better not vice versa.

Lack of multiple tiers. Ideally you would have, to use SC terminology, a Diamond tier, a Gold tier, etc so players can play against people in their own league. It makes no sense that a high school football team plays against an NFL one - no chance, nor is it entertaining.

Too much focus on 1v1. 1v1 is good and fine, but more diversity is simply more interesting. 2v2 is almost an entirely new game with new possible strats, synergies, even maps. I don't personally care about 3v3 or 4v4 but I know others do.

RNG impact on games. Entire games can be won or loss without player impact. 120mm mortar can squad wipe a vet3 pzgren with shreks on the first shot, or it can do absolutely nothing all round except burn 400mp. Ram can knock out a brand new tiger that someone saved up for the last 5 minutes for, or your t34s can take themselves out of the game for no reason.

"Lame" strats. Snipers in clown cars. 120mm sitting in the base firing all over the map on Langres. I'm not saying imbalanced, just simply not fun.

DLC commanders. It's the definition of pay 2 win if we're in a competitive situation and the other guy has shelled out $20 to have more options than I do.

Bugs / lack of polish. Some of the bugs that get introduced or haven't been fixed are discouraging. The ostheer sniper bug, the can't cancel mines bug, etc. Some of the absolute most rage inducing pathing I've ever seen in a game, especially on halftracks or tanks. Input lag (though I hear this might be fixed with battle servers?). Maps where one spawn point is obviously favored.

Core design decisions with game. Squad insta gib. Lack of strategic options. Shallow commander system. All things that have been talked about ad nauseam on these forums.

EDIT: Formatting.

Well, in my opinion I loved to see a 2on2 tournament. I hate playing 1vs1, because i already know i have lost in the first round to a geek playing much more than me

Please make something so the people on a lower lvl play, can compete vs others with the same "skill".

Maybe make some lower brackets, higher brackets? Where all the top players can play in the higher brackets.

Also input lag, is one of the reasons that i don't play tournies!

1. There's too big difference between noobs and pros in my opinion, that's how game is designed. It's not spamcrap or league of loosers where half of the community can win a tournament.

2. I think CoH2 is made for older people that are over 20 and have other stuff to do than playing computer games for the whole weekend

3. Balance also has an impact, who would like to play in tournament where he's obviously gonna rage due to RNG gods?

What could be done to have more players in tournament:

If Relic will host tournament then i suggest a rewards for all participants, R1 loosers will get 1 skin of their choice, R2 skin and commander etc... so everyone would be happy (partially ofc)

Time zones are biggest problems obviously so I suggest to do elimination tournaments first for each time zone region (USA, Europe, Asia) and then host it for all the winners

+1

Barton, there's something weird in you. Someone has kidnapped you and substituted by another much more mature. I can only say congrats to the kidnapper =)

Because the game is too dull and broken to justify the time you'd need to put into it.

Comparing yourself with the best gets you better not vice versa.

Basilone isnt comparing himself with SC hes comparing relic with blizzard which is just unfair if you take into consideration that the financial capabilities of those two companies are completely different. We have to be realistic, CoH is probably never going to be as big as Starcraft. On a side note: I dont think RNG affects teh skill ceiling of coh2, jst take a look at the ridiculous win ratio of some of the top player. It would be impossible to get such win rates if the better player wouldnt win in 90% of the games.
The term RNG is so overused in the CoH2 community, most people dont realize that coh2 is based on rng. Every single engagement is decided by rng. If people want to play a game without luck involved they should just switch games and play Starcraft or chess. Imo a game that involves a lot of luck can still be competitive . It might become problematic when people play for huge amounts of money but as long the as competitiveness is just for fun i dont see a problem with rng.

sry double post