Soviet mines needs at least 2x cost for its effectiveness
8 Feb 2014, 02:57 AM
#21
Posts: 1042
Easy, make it the ISU-122 and make it only fire AT rounds. Soviets would kill for a dedicated doctrinal AT tank which is actually capable of facing off against an elefant...
8 Feb 2014, 03:25 AM
#22
Posts: 4928
I guess they could just let it hurt tanks but keep the sluggish reload and high cost?
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
8 Feb 2014, 03:43 AM
#23
Posts: 523
FYAI, C&C: Red Alert I has a "Scatter" command to make ur units spread out randomly. Wish we had that, whenever my grens decide to hug eachother i just facepalm. :/
8 Feb 2014, 03:48 AM
#24
7 
Posts: 1664
FYAI, C&C: Red Alert I has a "Scatter" command to make ur units spread out randomly. Wish we had that, whenever my grens decide to hug eachother i just facepalm. :/
That would be amazing!
8 Feb 2014, 03:55 AM
#25
Posts: 4928
About mines, keep Soviet Mines at 40 munitions, I think the Tellermine 43 (Anti-Tank Mines) should be reduced to 40mun as well. Ost is more munitions heavy than Sov with some exceptions, and these mines will only trigger on Tanks.
S-mines were terrifying and widely used, but in-game they're a waste of munitions, good for a jump-scare before the enemy drives a scout car through the field and calls it a day. They should be placeable in smaller groups for 40mum and severely hurt or kill infantry that try to walk through. Possibly stun light vehicles so people stop using light armour as mine-sweepers.
S-mines were terrifying and widely used, but in-game they're a waste of munitions, good for a jump-scare before the enemy drives a scout car through the field and calls it a day. They should be placeable in smaller groups for 40mum and severely hurt or kill infantry that try to walk through. Possibly stun light vehicles so people stop using light armour as mine-sweepers.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
8 Feb 2014, 04:08 AM
#26
Posts: 379
Porygon is the flat out WORST person to bring up balance issues.
Not because he brings up things that aren't issues (although he sometimes does) but when he brings them up he over exaggerates them and so no one can take him seriously, even if there is a real issue behind it. This is one of those cases.
The Soviet mine is pretty well balanced and well costed in my opinion. I heard somewhere that the damage at the extent of its splash is the same as the centre so, if true, perhaps that could be slightly adjusted.
What Porygon might be expressing here is the lack of a similar Osteer counterpart. Which is an issue Osteer players have to deal with.
Not because he brings up things that aren't issues (although he sometimes does) but when he brings them up he over exaggerates them and so no one can take him seriously, even if there is a real issue behind it. This is one of those cases.
The Soviet mine is pretty well balanced and well costed in my opinion. I heard somewhere that the damage at the extent of its splash is the same as the centre so, if true, perhaps that could be slightly adjusted.
What Porygon might be expressing here is the lack of a similar Osteer counterpart. Which is an issue Osteer players have to deal with.
8 Feb 2014, 04:09 AM
#27
Posts: 680
Get a minesweeper, they are good.
8 Feb 2014, 04:09 AM
#28
Posts: 379
Also, what Unshavenbackman said ...
8 Feb 2014, 09:07 AM
#29
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
(if Kyo Gnome's math is correct; source: http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/21960-statistics-and-comparison-of-at-weaponry)
i wouldnt pay too much attention to what he posted. his math makes no sense. his times to kill are wrong. i dont even know how he arrived at "76% better at killing tanks". he also conveniently leaves off the isu's greater mobility and 12x the elefants AOE.
EDIT: he took the % greater dps for elefant and multiplied it by the % greater penetration to get "better at killing tanks". in other words, its an arbitrary and useless metric that doesnt actually measure anything.
8 Feb 2014, 10:37 AM
#30
Posts: 42
That's one of the major faults in the game that should be changed anyway imo. Why is one faction getting the best armour (with the exception of the SU-85) and AT while the other gets the larger squads and the best AI? Who thought that was a good idea? It should be spread equally among the two factions.
Soviets have so good and so much AI because Ostheer has so good standard inf, for example Pgrens. Ostheer has so good AT even though Soviet tanks might not be the best, but Soviet tanks are much cheaper and faster than the German ones and therefore more of them hit the battlefield and they can maneuver better than the Germans. IMO the overall army characteristics make sense. It is the details that favor one faction from time to time and there we have balancing.
Trust No1
8 Feb 2014, 13:50 PM
#31
Posts: 503
Permanently BannedMaybe the problem is because explode on proximity not when the guy put the foot on it... always explodes when you get that mine area...
But is ok, no problem!
But is ok, no problem!
11 Feb 2014, 04:57 AM
#32
Posts: 2779
TM-38 mine, which was an anti-tank mine, squad wipe.
S-mine, which was an WW2 Claymore, rains a lethal spray of shrapnel everywhere, kills only one dude.
Fuck Logic
S-mine, which was an WW2 Claymore, rains a lethal spray of shrapnel everywhere, kills only one dude.
Fuck Logic
11 Feb 2014, 05:05 AM
#33
Posts: 29
all problem units/abilities are actually just 1 problem ... german infantry unit pathing.
Squad members are too close too often, which randomly (but quite often) causes instant squad wipes by t34s, 30muni mines, 120mm mortars, strafes, etc...none of which should be instantly wiping whole squads as often as they all do.
addressing this issue should really be a priority, because balancing around it seems inevitably problematic.
(quoted from another thread)
Squad members are too close too often, which randomly (but quite often) causes instant squad wipes by t34s, 30muni mines, 120mm mortars, strafes, etc...none of which should be instantly wiping whole squads as often as they all do.
addressing this issue should really be a priority, because balancing around it seems inevitably problematic.
(quoted from another thread)
11 Feb 2014, 05:48 AM
#34
Posts: 4928
That's only partially true. While axis squads do group up, Soviet explosives are overall better at killing soldiers than axis explosions. T-34/76 does more damage over a larger radius than the Panzer IV, TM-35 Mines do heavy damage over a large radius while a single S-mine can't kill one man, 120mm mortars have no axis equivalent but are very strong, etc.
The IS-2 is particularly bad, its instant-kill radius for infantry is over twice as large as the Tiger's, and 18 times larger than the Panther's (which people often compare it to).
The IS-2 is particularly bad, its instant-kill radius for infantry is over twice as large as the Tiger's, and 18 times larger than the Panther's (which people often compare it to).
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
11 Feb 2014, 11:45 AM
#35
Posts: 1042
TM-38 mine, which was an anti-tank mine, squad wipe.
S-mine, which was an WW2 Claymore, rains a lethal spray of shrapnel everywhere, kills only one dude.
Fuck Logic
True, but watch out for looking for realism with mines, iirc the majority of Soviet mines were made of wood, i.e. impossible to detect with a minesweeper.
11 Feb 2014, 12:47 PM
#36
Posts: 4928
True, but watch out for looking for realism with mines, iirc the majority of Soviet mines were made of wood, i.e. impossible to detect with a minesweeper.
The Germans actually did something like they too. They even had a special mine that only their detectors could pick up, while allied detectors couldn't. After the war our engineers looked into it, turns out they were coated with radioactive paint, and German mine detectors used for finding those mines had built-in Geiger counters.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
11 Feb 2014, 13:07 PM
#37
Posts: 24
That's only partially true. While axis squads do group up, Soviet explosives are overall better at killing soldiers than axis explosions. T-34/76 does more damage over a larger radius than the Panzer IV, TM-35 Mines do heavy damage over a large radius while a single S-mine can't kill one man, 120mm mortars have no axis equivalent but are very strong, etc.
The IS-2 is particularly bad, its instant-kill radius for infantry is over twice as large as the Tiger's, and 18 times larger than the Panther's (which people often compare it to).
If my stats reading is correct:
T34/76 has SAME AoE range as PIV and Tiger, and LESS damage at the same time (120 vs 160).
Comparing Panther and Tiger's AI capability to IS2 is IMO wrong(they are both more AT, than AI).
If anything, you should compare IS2 AoE to Brummbar's (same AoE range, more dmg though).
All in all, I think that if anything can 1-shot full health squads (maybe besides railway arty and stuka bomb), I consider it bad for gameplay. At the same time I dont see easy fix for that within current gameplay mechanics - the best would be to improve infantry AI so they dont bunch up so much.
And on the topic:
Soviet mines are fine, Ostheer AI mines may need some improvment.
11 Feb 2014, 13:35 PM
#38
Posts: 2779
No, mines should be giving suppression with weak AOE damage, not squad wiping.
11 Feb 2014, 13:48 PM
#39
Posts: 1003
No, mines should be giving suppression with weak AOE damage, not squad wiping.
I never see all healty squad wipe on one mine. Post some replays or video please.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
11 Feb 2014, 21:11 PM
#40
Posts: 2561
S-Mine Field
· Cost from 80 MU to 60 MU
· Build time from 40s to 10s
· Mine spacing from 13 to 7
· Mine field can now be rotated to better enable placement
· Cost from 80 MU to 60 MU
· Build time from 40s to 10s
· Mine spacing from 13 to 7
· Mine field can now be rotated to better enable placement
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