I think Stug III is a tank that should be modified its stats.
I have noticed weak frontal armor at vet0. But I did not expect that... after doing a hard work vetting it to vet3, It would be that weak.
In that video you can see that my Stug III (90% HP) die against 2 shots from Anti Infantry tanks.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=egSgJ5TOJFA&feature=player_detailpage#t=42
I'd like to see that tank with less fire rate, less range but more frontal armor.
Stug III vet3 armor (video)
4 Feb 2014, 22:53 PM
#1
Posts: 410
4 Feb 2014, 22:57 PM
#2
Posts: 15
Dude. You got hit from the rear by a T34 and then got a KV2 round in the face. How is that being two-shotted by an AI tank?
4 Feb 2014, 23:03 PM
#3
Posts: 410
It's not a rear shot, It hits in the plate armor from the back side, but still a plate armor.
Kv2 shot make the same damage from that distance than from 100 mts away.
Kv2 shot make the same damage from that distance than from 100 mts away.
4 Feb 2014, 23:28 PM
#4
Posts: 337
It's not a rear shot, It hits in the plate armor from the back side, but still a plate armor.
Kv2 shot make the same damage from that distance than from 100 mts away.
LOL, this game doesn't have that kind of sophisticated damaged calculation. There is only "Front" and "Rear" for any vehicle. There is no such thing as "side armor" even.
I'm surprised on how many people actually thing this game is even remotely realistic. Most RTS games including this one are closer to Pac Man than to reality.
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4 Feb 2014, 23:34 PM
#5
Posts: 324 | Subs: 2
In the CoH world, it was two frontal shots.
Things about the Stug relevant to the video:
-It has poor health
-It has the same armor as the P4
-It gets 30% more armor with vet2
The first shot from the T34 was just an unlucky roll. And the second shot from the KV2 does massive damage both to infantry and tanks.
Keep the Stug in the back and use the 50 range and high dps advantage in combination with the very powerful vet 1 ability and you will get your money's worth.
On a side note: I almost believe relic is too scared for casual players to implement drastically different front and rear armor values (or even side armor for that matter), because flanking would become a necessity. (For example the Tiger has 300 front armor and 250 rear armor)
Things about the Stug relevant to the video:
-It has poor health
-It has the same armor as the P4
-It gets 30% more armor with vet2
The first shot from the T34 was just an unlucky roll. And the second shot from the KV2 does massive damage both to infantry and tanks.
Keep the Stug in the back and use the 50 range and high dps advantage in combination with the very powerful vet 1 ability and you will get your money's worth.
On a side note: I almost believe relic is too scared for casual players to implement drastically different front and rear armor values (or even side armor for that matter), because flanking would become a necessity. (For example the Tiger has 300 front armor and 250 rear armor)
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"Axis can STALL2WIN to get to that late game, there is really no hope for USF competitively short of getting the best side of the best USF maps and being an order of magnitude better than your opponent." - SageOfTheSix, after losing to Jesulin's Ostheer on Semoskiy Winter
"Axis can STALL2WIN to get to that late game, there is really no hope for USF competitively short of getting the best side of the best USF maps and being an order of magnitude better than your opponent." - SageOfTheSix, after losing to Jesulin's Ostheer on Semoskiy Winter
4 Feb 2014, 23:57 PM
#6
Posts: 542
On a side note: I almost believe relic is too scared for casual players to implement drastically different front and rear armor values (or even side armor for that matter), because flanking would become a necessity. (For example the Tiger has 300 front armor and 250 rear armor)
In the case of the Tiger tank this is actually relatively close to reality, since it had 80mm armor in the back in comparison to the 100mm in the front, at least according to Wikipedia.
Other tanks were not so strongly armored in the back, and I think this is reflected in most tank models, although the relations in regards to front armor between tanks seem off which could be a reason why flanking seems not necessary currently (Brummbär for example should have massive front armor, but poor back armor).
Of course, in the end this is a game and not necessarily close to reality, so they could do whatever they want.
4 Feb 2014, 23:59 PM
#7
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
that was actually a rear armor hit from the t34 since it hit the back half of the tank. even with the vet armor bonus thats still a 76% chance to pen (its 100% without vet). the kv2 hit was a little luckier, but still had a 67% chance to pen. not exactly sure what you expected to happen when you lead a charge with a lone stug. it is the cheapest german tank after all.
thats not really a fair example. the tiger has the best rear armor in the game and also the best rear to front armor ratio. its rear armor is 5/6 of the front while most vehicles have 1/2. quite a few tanks even have much less than 1/2, such as the brummbar, panther, kv2 and elefant. i guess its a matter of opinion, but i think 1/2 is already a pretty drastic difference. lowering it further wouldnt even have an effect in most cases since the majority of tanks/AT will already pen rear armor most of the time.
In the CoH world, it was two frontal shots.
On a side note: I almost believe relic is too scared for casual players to implement drastically different front and rear armor values (or even side armor for that matter), because flanking would become a necessity. (For example the Tiger has 300 front armor and 250 rear armor)
thats not really a fair example. the tiger has the best rear armor in the game and also the best rear to front armor ratio. its rear armor is 5/6 of the front while most vehicles have 1/2. quite a few tanks even have much less than 1/2, such as the brummbar, panther, kv2 and elefant. i guess its a matter of opinion, but i think 1/2 is already a pretty drastic difference. lowering it further wouldnt even have an effect in most cases since the majority of tanks/AT will already pen rear armor most of the time.
5 Feb 2014, 00:48 AM
#8
Posts: 324 | Subs: 2
In the case of the Tiger tank this is actually relatively close to reality, since it had 80mm armor in the back in comparison to the 100mm in the front, at least according to Wikipedia.
Correct, and up to 200mm at the turret front/mantlet. But you're right, it's pointless to argue with facts in a arcade rts game. Still, it bugs me that in the given example it almost doesn't matter if you hit/ram in the front or rear.
that was actually a rear armor hit from the t34 since it hit the back half of the tank.
I'm a little bit confused - i always thought the position where the enemy shot originates matters, and not where the shot lands. In the latter case it would mean you could land back-shots (almost) from the front if you target the far end of the side armor.
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198041705871
"Axis can STALL2WIN to get to that late game, there is really no hope for USF competitively short of getting the best side of the best USF maps and being an order of magnitude better than your opponent." - SageOfTheSix, after losing to Jesulin's Ostheer on Semoskiy Winter
"Axis can STALL2WIN to get to that late game, there is really no hope for USF competitively short of getting the best side of the best USF maps and being an order of magnitude better than your opponent." - SageOfTheSix, after losing to Jesulin's Ostheer on Semoskiy Winter
5 Feb 2014, 07:54 AM
#9
Posts: 410
In my oppinion, they should rework the frontal armor of the Stug III.
5 Feb 2014, 08:27 AM
#10
Posts: 247
Why didnt they include sidearmor?
6 Feb 2014, 03:08 AM
#11
Posts: 1571
The Stug could use more HP. 480 is really low
6 Feb 2014, 07:48 AM
#12
Posts: 1003
You outrange KV-2 or T-34. Why you rush with tankdestroyer?
If you do this with Su-85 vs Pz4 and Elefant, you lost Su-85 very easy.
If you do this with Su-85 vs Pz4 and Elefant, you lost Su-85 very easy.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
6 Feb 2014, 07:49 AM
#13
Posts: 1003
In my oppinion, they should rework the frontal armor of the Stug III.
Frontal armour is 160. T-34/76 have 115. If i remember right.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
6 Feb 2014, 07:59 AM
#14
Posts: 410
I prefer be penetrated more often with more HP than as is it atm. (That's what she said...)
6 Feb 2014, 08:04 AM
#15
Posts: 1003
I prefer be penetrated more often with more HP than as is it atm. (That's what she said...)
Why? High armour reduce taken damage. And T-34/76 shoting from front have trouble penetrating.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
6 Feb 2014, 08:18 AM
#16
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
For the price I think it's decent.
6 Feb 2014, 08:55 AM
#17
Posts: 410
Why? High armour reduce taken damage. And T-34/76 shoting from front have trouble penetrating.
Because of explosions. There are many russian units with low pen and high damage that can blow up the stugs.
T34 shooting frontal to a Stug makes decent damage atm. Stug have no AI skills and it's more expensive than a T34.
6 Feb 2014, 09:17 AM
#18
Posts: 337
Stugs need to have HP up'ed from 480 to 640. They are under-performing right now for their fairly high cost.
I almost always regret building them every time I give them another chance.
I almost always regret building them every time I give them another chance.
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6 Feb 2014, 10:24 AM
#19
Posts: 978
German vehicle armor is underperforming anyways in this game. The T-34/76 was so much buffed that StuG and Panzer IV frontal armor is too often penetrated. It was 80mm of frontal armor ffs which was only penetrated at point blank range by the 76mm guns.
The nerf to German armor vet (no blitz with engine damage, less armor on vet 2) was also too much in combination with the buff of the T-34.
At least give the StuG it´s historical frontal armor. Either that or more range on the gun.
The nerf to German armor vet (no blitz with engine damage, less armor on vet 2) was also too much in combination with the buff of the T-34.
At least give the StuG it´s historical frontal armor. Either that or more range on the gun.
6 Feb 2014, 10:46 AM
#20
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
it was rear hit + barrage from KV-2 = insta kill for stug.
It's not that T34 dealt huge damage but K-2 penetraed frontal armor and dealt it's full damage
But according to a Stug, it's lame that this tank is totally UP in CoH2, it was one of greatest tanks in WW2 with very good and slope armor
It's not that T34 dealt huge damage but K-2 penetraed frontal armor and dealt it's full damage
But according to a Stug, it's lame that this tank is totally UP in CoH2, it was one of greatest tanks in WW2 with very good and slope armor
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