ha. good job on turning another thread into unrelated complaints about elite troops.
It is not complaint. It is about adapting on actual patch. After release patch log, i re-value my strategy and base build.
For whines there are another heroes.
Soviet Industry needs to be nerfed.
11 Feb 2014, 15:04 PM
#101
Posts: 1003
It is not complaint. It is about adapting on actual patch. After release patch log, i re-value my strategy and base build.
For whines there are another heroes.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
11 Feb 2014, 18:18 PM
#102
Posts: 971
ha. good job on turning another thread into unrelated complaints about elite troops.
its only -65mp and all tanks got nerfed (yes, even german tanks). if youre losing all your t34s to a single panther, youre doing it wrong.
as for the original question, industry is still really strong when used properly. like elite troops, it didnt really get much of a nerf last patch. the only direct change was build times for buildings is no longer decreased. that has no effect on the timing of the first tank though, just the t1/t2 start. indirectly its a bit worse because of the new scatter changes, though with proper micro you can mitigate that. if you get a feel for the timing of tank reloads, you can stop them just before they shoot so they dont have a moving penalty. when you only have a few t34s, you can easily kite grens using thing and avoid the faust. once you get enough tanks it gets harder to micro, but you can just overwhelm the germans at that point.
it may not be great in 1v1, but it still really shines in team games where you can rely on teammates to make up for your lack of infantry
Mostly you're right.
But also is true that purchased vet2 Panthers are really hard to beat for a soviet T3 player.
Soviet Industry is still OP, but against a Elite Troop player you should try another commander.
11 Feb 2014, 18:19 PM
#103
Posts: 680
1 week ago i play versus one spam player that put 3 T70 tank and maxim spam...
One week ago!! If this commander sees light once a week i guess its reign has come to an end. And with the community usually screaming for nerfs after every loss it seems that this commander has slotted well in to balance after nerf. Guess i can keep practicing with it without feeling abusive.
11 Feb 2014, 18:43 PM
#104
Posts: 337
Soviet industry is still OP. Still the strongest Soviet doctrine.
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11 Feb 2014, 18:58 PM
#105
Posts: 680
Soviet industry is still OP. Still the strongest Soviet doctrine.
A replay to back that statement with?
11 Feb 2014, 20:29 PM
#106
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
they just released a video on the new changes for next week, so i wouldnt practice with it too much in its current form.
i can see elite being hard for industry to deal with in a 1v1, but in team games its amazing. you can have a t34 shortly after the vetted pgrens start showing up. if your micro is good, even schrecks are easy to solo just by crushing them. vetting tanks just makes them more expensive paper weights when you ram with your swarm of t34s. same goes for the tiger ace. ive had many games where i easily built 25+ t34s. theres no way for the german tanks to handle that many. their only hope at that point is a pak43 or a lot of pak40s and a map with lots of choke points.
ive even won a game on pripyat where the germans had tiger ace and 2 elefants... kv2s shouldnt be underestimated.
But also is true that purchased vet2 Panthers are really hard to beat for a soviet T3 player.
Soviet Industry is still OP, but against a Elite Troop player you should try another commander.
i can see elite being hard for industry to deal with in a 1v1, but in team games its amazing. you can have a t34 shortly after the vetted pgrens start showing up. if your micro is good, even schrecks are easy to solo just by crushing them. vetting tanks just makes them more expensive paper weights when you ram with your swarm of t34s. same goes for the tiger ace. ive had many games where i easily built 25+ t34s. theres no way for the german tanks to handle that many. their only hope at that point is a pak43 or a lot of pak40s and a map with lots of choke points.
ive even won a game on pripyat where the germans had tiger ace and 2 elefants... kv2s shouldnt be underestimated.
11 Feb 2014, 20:31 PM
#107
Posts: 157
I barely see Soviet Industry being used as Soviets, even if the commander is on their roster (9/10) on both sides. Most go guards or shock doctrines. However, I've seen the Elite commander being used every single time if it's on their Roster (not to digress from the main topic).
11 Feb 2014, 21:09 PM
#108
Posts: 2561
Soviet Industry
· Soviet Industry CP cost from 0 to 3
· Soviet Industry no longer modifies base structure build time
· Soviet Industry CP cost from 0 to 3
· Soviet Industry no longer modifies base structure build time
12 Feb 2014, 14:45 PM
#109
Posts: 1130
Soviet Industry
· Soviet Industry CP cost from 0 to 3
· Soviet Industry no longer modifies base structure build time
Good. it was simply atrocious on some maps. and could easily double the fuel income of the soviet player
horrida flamma bella
12 Feb 2014, 16:42 PM
#110
Posts: 471
Good. it was simply atrocious on some maps. and could easily double the fuel income of the soviet player
Yeah, Windustry was ridiculous. Hope the patch notes are correct in that respect.
12 Feb 2014, 19:00 PM
#111
Posts: 337
Great patch notes. I just hope the new commanders don't screw shit up.
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12 Feb 2014, 19:01 PM
#112
Posts: 523
Great patch notes. I just hope the new commanders don't screw shit up.
QFT
12 Feb 2014, 19:30 PM
#113
Posts: 680
Industry is still a good commander.
Its a little sad that the T-70 wont be used anymore, its a cute little tank.
Its a little sad that the T-70 wont be used anymore, its a cute little tank.
13 Feb 2014, 04:10 AM
#114
Posts: 647
not sure how this will work out, at 3cp means t34 comes at more or less normal timing. what will happen to all the infantry already invested early to get map control? suddenly invalidated and unable to reinforce?
also, if t34/76 are not changed in anyway and coming in same timing as the p4, whats the point? they lose out 1v1. swarms of them are gonna be scrap metal against stugs and paks that are way out earlier.
also, if t34/76 are not changed in anyway and coming in same timing as the p4, whats the point? they lose out 1v1. swarms of them are gonna be scrap metal against stugs and paks that are way out earlier.
13 Feb 2014, 10:35 AM
#115
Posts: 1130
not sure how this will work out, at 3cp means t34 comes at more or less normal timing. what will happen to all the infantry already invested early to get map control? suddenly invalidated and unable to reinforce?
also, if t34/76 are not changed in anyway and coming in same timing as the p4, whats the point? they lose out 1v1. swarms of them are gonna be scrap metal against stugs and paks that are way out earlier.
Thats what was the problem. the t-34 or t-70 appeared before any decent counter appeared. on maps where the pak is nearly useless like the road to karkov this doctrine was nearly an instant win.
horrida flamma bella
13 Feb 2014, 10:53 AM
#116
Posts: 1003
3CP is quite late. And i was never fan change 25% manpover income for 13 fuel per minute. Its mean you pay 425MP more for one T-34/76 (85 fuel)
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
13 Feb 2014, 11:14 AM
#117
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
3CP is quite late. And i was never fan change 25% manpover income for 13 fuel per minute. Its mean you pay 425MP more for one T-34/76 (85 fuel)
Its not 25%.
If it was 25% it would be awesome as it would actually scale and the less mp income you would have, the less severe penalty would be. This is what new lolTiger Ace will have.
But flat 65mp means pretty much you have constantly reserved 44 popcap in exchange for 13 fuel.
For comparison, luftwaffe fuel drop is actually more effective menpower to fuel and you have bursts of fuel where you need them after you decide you need them instead of flat fuel income for flat huge penalty.
Anyway the moment overwhelming armor doctrine will be released, soviet industry will be dead, except for those who get it specifically for KV-2 and rep stations.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
13 Feb 2014, 13:05 PM
#118
Posts: 89
try it out, SI at 3cp
if you build 2 fuel cashes instead of infantry you won't be able to support
you can build T3, you get 3cp and then fast tanks
if you start building lets say a t70 and then get 3CP and activate SI, the T70's build time will still be slow/normal.
so you're better of cancelling the build and start again after SI to get it build immediatly.
what's no longer possible is to get a t70 just after german scout cars come on the field because your M3A sniper is pissing them off.
but hey M5 krautmower gets a nice dps boost
if you build 2 fuel cashes instead of infantry you won't be able to support
you can build T3, you get 3cp and then fast tanks
if you start building lets say a t70 and then get 3CP and activate SI, the T70's build time will still be slow/normal.
so you're better of cancelling the build and start again after SI to get it build immediatly.
what's no longer possible is to get a t70 just after german scout cars come on the field because your M3A sniper is pissing them off.
but hey M5 krautmower gets a nice dps boost
13 Feb 2014, 13:59 PM
#119
Posts: 647
Thats what was the problem. the t-34 or t-70 appeared before any decent counter appeared. on maps where the pak is nearly useless like the road to karkov this doctrine was nearly an instant win.
true, but this is kinda maddening.
t34 is effective now because they came so early and there wasnt really an effective counter, not because they were good at what they did. they are still the most micro intensive tank because of their filmsy armour and kinda worthless main gun.
now they are pushed back the timing where they are the most useless, which is on par with their counters paks/stugs/p4. combine that with the scatter nerf, they are situational against infantry, requires large amount of support before they can hit anything and they still cannot deal with any armour when stugs and panzer4 outgun/outarmour them.
so relic is pretty much forcing a more infantry based early game for soviets industry, yet are not doing anything to mitigate the incapabilities for industry to support a sizeable infantry force.
i may be only theory crafting, but i see industry tactics to be unsustainable once the patch kicks in.
13 Feb 2014, 16:34 PM
#120
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
Now if the 'balance' team could only apply the same CP logic Elite Troops training the world would be a much better place.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
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