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So, I missed the whole "why russians hate coh2" thing...

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PaRaNo1a
2 Dec 2013, 21:21 PM
#81
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:05 PMFritzX


what are the german soldiers talking in documentaries?

No sane person invades Russia without winter clothes, period. Unless your about to be attacked first.
The definition to pre-emptive strike - a surprise attack that is launched in order to prevent the enemy from doing it to you.

By the beginning of the Second World War, the Soviet Union had more than one million well-trained paratroopers. More than all the countries combined. But wait, anybody knows that you don't train 1 million paras to defend. I bet they didn't tell you that in documentaries lolz.


They invaded Russia without winter clothes because they thought Blietzkrieg tactics would work (at least it worked everywhere else) They expected to win the war by capturing Moscow before winter (apparently they thought the Russians would give up if they would loose their capital). You are right no sane person invades Russia, it doesn`t matter if you have winter clothes or not, you just don`t fck around with this nation, period. As for the fact the Stalin was probably preparing to invade Europe is true. I mean you have Europe killing each other you wouldn`t leave that chance go to waste would you?
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Nullist
2 Dec 2013, 21:24 PM
#82
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:21 PMPaRaNo1a
As for the fact the Stalin was probably preparing to invade Europe is true.




The Soviet Union was ALREADY invading Europe before the Nazis ever even launched Barbarossa.
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The_Courier
2 Dec 2013, 21:25 PM
#83
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I think Relic did go a overboard. Executing the soldiers who courageously saved a superior officier and extending Order 227 all the way to friggin Berlin is just silly and should not have made it into the campaign, as well as the cliche scenes in Stalingrad pulled right out of Enemy at the Gates. It just reeks of trying too hard to find a war crime to jam into the story because Soviets.

On the other hand, the reaction was just ridiculously disproportionate. It seemed like the issue was that Soviet war crimes were portrayed at all. The Western allies were certainly no angels, the Japanese and German civilians can attest to that, but the Eastern Front was still way above and beyond anything else in the war in terms of sheer barbary, save for what the Imperial Japanese did to China perhaps. Apart from those I mentionned earlier, pretty much all the war crimes portrayed did happen, and they didn't even show the worst of what the Soviets did during that time. Trampler squad clearing mine fields with their lives. The incredible callousness with which the Penal Batallions were treated. The Gulags. Mass executions of Polish officiers (among others). The Soviet leadership was one of the nastiest bunch of human refuse to have ever lived. To make a game on the Eastern Front and overlook those aspects would be pretty silly to me, even if again Relic did focus on the war crimes too much.

I also didn't really understand the whole ''No Soviets are heroic!!'' complaint. Uh, yes, they were? The only evil ones were the Commissar, which basically comes with the job, and the Colonel who shot himself over it later. All others were either neutral or portrayed in a positive light for being courageous, and the main character is few things short of a saint.
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PaRaNo1a
2 Dec 2013, 21:26 PM
#84
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:24 PMNullist


The Soviet Union was ALREADY invading Europe before the Nazis ever even launched Barbarossa.


Nah, we just split Poland with the Nazies, no biggies there.
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Nullist
2 Dec 2013, 21:28 PM
#85
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:26 PMPaRaNo1a


Nah, we just split Poland with the Nazies, no biggies there.




How do you think the Soviet Union got to Poland's borders in the first place?
By teleporting over Eastern Europe? I think you may need to improve your geography.

The Soviets where invading Eastern Europe SIMULTANEOUSLY as the Nazis where invading Western Europe.
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PaRaNo1a
2 Dec 2013, 21:32 PM
#86
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:25 PMThe_Courier

I also didn't really understand the whole ''No Soviets are heroic!!'' complaint. Uh, yes, they were? The only evil ones were the Commissar, which basically comes with the job, and the Colonel who shot himself over it later. All others were either neutral or portrayed in a positive light for being courageous, and the main character is few things short of a saint.


Show one bad person from the good guys side and everyone looses their minds.
As for the main character, he looked like a sissy.
In VCoH main heroes were Captain America without the fancy costume, all the squad of Captain America`s. Fck even the British Officers in ToV were hardcore "Explosive shell dropped near me, I have a war to win, solo mode".
While in CoH 2 the heroes are some sissies afraid of dying and giving their lives for their country.... This is the general feeling of the campaign, (yes there are some heroic moments). While in VCoH the heroes don`t even fight for their country, they just fight against "Evil Nazi forces" and it`s a good enough reason for the Americans to die.
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PaRaNo1a
2 Dec 2013, 21:34 PM
#87
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:28 PMNullist


How do you think the Soviet Union got to Poland's borders in the first place?
By teleporting over Eastern Europe?

The Soviets where invading Eastern Europe SIMULTANEOUSLY as the Nazis where invading Western Europe.


Ah w/e, won`t start this discussion again. Can we talk about the campaign and not about who invaded what and why?
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Nullist
2 Dec 2013, 21:38 PM
#88
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:34 PMPaRaNo1a


Ah w/e, won`t start this discussion again. Can we talk about the campaign and not about who invaded what and why?




Sure, as long as you dont make historically false statements, like:
jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:21 PMPaRaNo1a
As for the fact the Stalin was probably preparing to invade Europe is true.


While the Nazi's where attacking France, the Soviets attacked Finland in 1939, and invaded/occupied Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia in 1940 as well as part of Romania. Add Poland to that, and what a tragedy that was.

Barbarossa began in only in June of 1941.

The Soviet Union was SIMULTANEOUSLY invading Europe in the East, even as Nazi Germany was invading in the West.

The Soviets where not just preparing to invade, they WHERE aggressing and invading in the East, for almost the entire time the Nazis where in the West.
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Last of the Catachan
2 Dec 2013, 21:58 PM
#89
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:28 PMNullist


How do you think the Soviet Union got to Poland's borders in the first place?
By teleporting over Eastern Europe? I think you may need to improve your geography.

The Soviets where invading Eastern Europe SIMULTANEOUSLY as the Nazis where invading Western Europe.



I think your forgetting the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact
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Nullist
2 Dec 2013, 22:08 PM
#90
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:58 PMLast of the Catachan
I think your forgetting the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact




In what way am I forgetting the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact, exactly and specifically?

(You should know that at the same time I was writing the above posts, I was also referencing and reading SPECIFICALLY the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact wiki page, so that I could date when the Soviets attacked/invaded/occupied Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania because I didn't remember them offhand. This meaning I probably, at this point, know the Pact better, or atleast have it more fresh in my mind, than you do unless youve read it within the last hours by chance).
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GeneralCH
2 Dec 2013, 22:17 PM
#91
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might i ask, what is the point of this thread?
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PaRaNo1a
2 Dec 2013, 22:18 PM
#92
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 22:17 PMGeneralCH
might i ask, what is the point of this thread?


Shhh, let the Great Nullist of Finland teach us the WW2 history
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The_Courier
2 Dec 2013, 22:40 PM
#93
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 21:32 PMPaRaNo1a


Show one bad person from the good guys side and everyone looses their minds.
As for the main character, he looked like a sissy.
In VCoH main heroes were Captain America without the fancy costume, all the squad of Captain America`s. Fck even the British Officers in ToV were hardcore "Explosive shell dropped near me, I have a war to win, solo mode".
While in CoH 2 the heroes are some sissies afraid of dying and giving their lives for their country.... This is the general feeling of the campaign, (yes there are some heroic moments). While in VCoH the heroes don`t even fight for their country, they just fight against "Evil Nazi forces" and it`s a good enough reason for the Americans to die.


Not sure how being unwilling to massacre everyone undiscriminately and not wanting to shoot soldiers unwilling to obey stupid orders makes one a sissy. This guy was an officier/war reporter for the entire duration of the Eastern Front, that's about as far from ''sissy'' as one can possibly get. Or does the ''sissy'' part come from being utterly disillusioned with your country after seeing that its ruling regime is one of the most barbarous of all times?

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Last of the Catachan
2 Dec 2013, 22:51 PM
#94
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 22:08 PMNullist


In what way am I forgetting the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact, exactly and specifically?

(You should know that at the same time I was writing the above posts, I was also referencing and reading SPECIFICALLY the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact wiki page, so that I could date when the Soviets attacked/invaded/occupied Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania because I didn't remember them offhand. This meaning I probably, at this point, know the Pact better, or atleast have it more fresh in my mind, than you do unless youve read it within the last hours by chance).



It's a pact they both decided who was going to be invade each country your trying to say hitler invaded Poland then Russia because he thought stalin was going to invade Germany. hitler was the one who all along intended to invade Russia not the other way around
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Lynskey
2 Dec 2013, 22:52 PM
#95
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 22:17 PMGeneralCH
might i ask, what is the point of this thread?
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PaRaNo1a
2 Dec 2013, 22:57 PM
#96
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 22:40 PMThe_Courier


Not sure how being unwilling to massacre everyone undiscriminately and not wanting to shoot soldiers unwilling to obey stupid orders makes one a sissy. This guy was an officier/war reporter for the entire duration of the Eastern Front, that's about as far from ''sissy'' as one can possibly get. Or does the ''sissy'' part come from being utterly disillusioned with your country after seeing that its ruling regime is one of the most barbarous of all times?


Being a reporter stops you from being a sissy? Didn`t know that.
Have you listened to how he talks? Every cinematic with him I have the feeling he is going to burst our crying because the evil commissar pushed them to the frontline to fight the invader. I know he questions the ruling regime and their decisions. But at least make him sound more manly ffs. =)
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Nullist
2 Dec 2013, 22:59 PM
#97
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 22:51 PMLast of the Catachan
It's a pact they both decided who was going to be invade each country your trying to say hitler invaded Poland then Russia because he thought stalin was going to invade Germany. hitler was the one who all along intended to invade Russia not the other way around




I know WHAT the Pact was.

Now how and where exactly did I "forget" that?

I was saying that the Soviet Union was INVADING EASTERN EUROPE throughout the same time that Nazi Germany was INVADING WESTERN EUROPE. BOTH where also attacking Poland.

In the same period that the Nazis where invading France, the Soviet Union where invading Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Romania.

Meaning the Soviet Union was an aggressor and invader in Europe in WWII even BEFORE Barbarossa.

Do you understand that?
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The_Courier
2 Dec 2013, 23:02 PM
#98
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 22:57 PMPaRaNo1a

Being a reporter stops you from being a sissy? Didn`t know that.
Have you listened to how he talks? Every cinematic with him I have the feeling he is going to burst our crying because the evil commissar pushed them to the frontline to fight the invader. I know he questions the ruling regime and their decisions. But at least make him sound more manly ffs. =)


So, what, you want him to be Rambo or something? He's far more real than the power fantasy you want him to be.

He has many signs of a person suffering from PTSD, which given the horrors he has seen is perfectly understandable. If you think PTSD and/or associated disorders make someone a ''sissy'', say so and I'll safely chalk it up to you being an idiot.
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JohanSchwarz
3 Dec 2013, 00:35 AM
#99
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2013, 22:17 PMGeneralCH
might i ask, what is the point of this thread?


Well, to be honest, with the state that the game's multiplayer is in and the direction the DLC is obviously heading, one might ask what is the point of this entire forum?

Sad truth right there.
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Tristan44
3 Dec 2013, 03:25 AM
#100
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One could even argue the western allies invaded Europe to prevent communism taking over all of Europe! Just a theory my history professor and I discussed in length.

300 post party!!!!
http://www.twitch.tv/tristand44
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