Do you like the command panzer?

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2022, 12:36 PMHannibal

Small correction though, Panther can survive "only" 9 penetrating hits with all bonuses combined. Strong thing though is that you don't need the Command P4 close by all the time. You could wait until your Panther has eaten 7 shots, then drive it close and jump up to 9 shots.
The only drawback is that this build takes quite a while to get going. You basically need the Panther, Command P4 and at least a PWerfer for fencing off ATGs, better yet a Brummbar. Potentially you need to build a normal P4 for the mid game, which would put the game at the 30 min mark until you have everything together. On the positive side, you can create the build from a standard, unspecialized Ostheer one by just adding a Command P4 once the normal P4 dies.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2022, 12:36 PMHannibal

Small correction though, Panther can survive "only" 9 penetrating hits with all bonuses combined. Strong thing though is that you don't need the Command P4 close by all the time. You could wait until your Panther has eaten 7 shots, then drive it close and jump up to 9 shots.
The only drawback is that this build takes quite a while to get going. You basically need the Panther, Command P4 and at least a PWerfer for fencing off ATGs, better yet a Brummbar. Potentially you need to build a normal P4 for the mid game, which would put the game at the 30 min mark until you have everything together. On the positive side, you can create the build from a standard, unspecialized Ostheer one by just adding a Command P4 once the normal P4 dies.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2022, 12:53 PMKatukov

"only" 9 shots equals to outsurviving allied heavy tanks and even the king tiger in terms of what you can sustain as punishment. actually, a veteran sturmtiger has only 40 more health points

1400 potential health for a tank is really strong + you also shield infantry with the aura + IT ALSO WORKS ON ALLIES. to top it off, hull down demounts instantly (letting you escape right away) and (I THINK) you get panzer tactician with it.


in team mode additionally you can reliably pull off this build, unless you are heavily losing (triple cap & both fuels lost.) axis teams simply need to get fuel caches and play the waiting game, and eventually overwhelm the allies with panther/arty spam

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2022, 12:13 PMBasedSecretary

You just gave me an idea for my next OST game cheers mate have a good weekend take care.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2022, 13:25 PMHannibal

Yes, I fully agree.
I just added some points that I think are necessary.
My main point is: It is an expensive build and it will only work as a complete package. Without the Brummbar/PWerfer it basically falls apart since your Panther will get killed by ATGs. And the earliest you'll get it is 25 minutes if you skip literally all unnecessary fuel cost and your team has to build fuel caches. Realistically, you're on the 30 min plus side. The other option is that two Ostheer players need to split the units among each other, but this required way more micro and coordination as well as force concentration.
The build works very, very well on larger modes with narrow maps like Angermunde, especially if the opponents do not spam artillery. It doesn't on super open maps or smaller modes though.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2022, 14:03 PMKatukov

regardless you also get elefant in the same doctrine, which can use hulldown and get upwards of 100 range (the kv-2, for comparison, has only ~70 effective range)

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2022, 14:03 PMKatukov

axis players are either artillery players or tank spammers, so it is easy to get indirect fire on AT in an axis random team.

your p4 command affects ordinary tanks (p4, stugs, what not) and infantry too, it will be useful as a secondary tank regardless of what you go.

You still have access to your strong infantry while stalling for armor, and most team games either end with a stomp, or at a painful, slow and bloody slug out that lasts forever.


regardless you also get elefant in the same doctrine, which can use hulldown and get upwards of 100 range (the kv-2, for comparison, has only ~70 effective range). IMO its an overpowered and broken doctrine and possibly better than jaeger armor on some maps

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2022, 17:02 PMHannibal

It'll work if you have an arranged team on voice chat though, otherwise the reaction time will be too long and you'll probably need to pull your Panther out anyway, even if it can take about ~12 shots accounting for penetration.

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2022, 17:46 PMmrgame2

i just tried the cp4 + panther + brumbar build in 4v4 random

not ideal for 2 panthers in 4v4 imo.

it is costly and lacks vision. i dont know i keep getting hit by allies TD.

i wont mind replace the elefant with spotting scopes!

Jump back to quoted post4 Feb 2022, 17:35 PMgeneral_gawain

Good guess. Taking in account penetration chance and accuracy of ATG (4% miss chance at long range for ZIS and 6pdr) a ZIS or 6pdr needs to shot 13-14 times on average. That are about 35 seconds for double ZIS and about 30 seconds for double 6pdr (with the initial shoot of both ATGs taking no time). That leaves some time to react. Using panzer tactican while remaining hulled down would prolong this furher since not all ground attacks will hit. So I do think there should be some time to communicate with teammates that are listening and reacting. Of course there are random mates where all communication is sucked up by a black hole.

I do think USF has the biggest problem with Command PzIV / hull down combo since they have no ATGs which aren't a munition sink. USF only has the Jackson as a reliable AT source and that one will loose badly vs Panther with hull down / command PzIV aura. You can pretty effectively shut down USF tanks at certain areas of the map that way.