USA scotts (M8A1)

Update your game, Scott isn't anymore a backline unit, it has standard range and only the barrage is set to 80.

50 range isnt "standard range".

And what do you mean "Only" the barrage? The barrage isn't some sort of secondary function of the unit, it's on a 55 second cooldown and is what's intended to be used as its primary attack method.

Scott because it has low AOE but high accuracy (you generally want scatter vs blobs for both shock effect and more dmg) and short autofire.

What? High accuracy isnt a point against it in terms of fighting infantry. You want low scatter so you're actually going to be hitting the units you're aiming at

To me it seems much of the complaints of the scott is from players that don't want the extra micro involved of dealing with the scott. I've seen the difference during the game. The average ost player leaves their MG wherever it is for long duration even under fire from indirect weapons like mortars. They rely on the fact that the indirect weapons are poor at killing off the weapon crew in 1 burst and are very slow to react. The more advanced players will constantly move their mg around, usually the first or second time they are hit. These are the players that are surviving the scott now.

Frankly, I don't see a problem with it, because typically in team games at least, there is a pwerfer before there is a scott. Getting an allied weapon team to dodge a pwerfer is much harder than getting an axis weapon team to dodge a scott.

It's funny that Sturmpanther made this poll during a game in the 4v4 tourney bascially like a joke because it was extremely clear that Scotts were OP as fuk and now the poll runs and people want them even more powerful.


What was the win ratio of Allies vs Axis in that tourney?
Oh yeah, like 80% in favor of Allies.
AxIs oP pLs NeRf

50 range isnt "standard range".

And what do you mean "Only" the barrage? The barrage isn't some sort of secondary function of the unit, it's on a 55 second cooldown and is what's intended to be used as its primary attack method.



What? High accuracy isnt a point against it in terms of fighting infantry. You want low scatter so you're actually going to be hitting the units you're aiming at

yeah, so, Scott must get roll-backed its standard normal fire range to 60 and get roll backed veterancy bonus only effects Skill barrage to all barrages(normal fire barrage + Skill fire barrage)

I like how USF-only players are talking about Panther dives on a unit with an 80 range barrage, smoke, tiny target size, 7 freaking speed, and with the durability to survive 3 hits.

I mean, I've brain-afked and left it sitting in front of double PAK and eaten 4 shots before, but the ability to introspect is apparently impossible for one-faction mains.

yeah, so, Scott must get roll-backed its standard normal fire range to 60 and get roll backed veterancy bonus only effects Skill barrage to all barrages(normal fire barrage + Skill fire barrage)

No it shouldnt.

Played a game last night vs. the M8 with 3x M1 behind it.

It feels like a very fast (light)brumbar that seems to escape any engagement. Range on the auto-attack seems a bit much, given comparable units had their auto-range nerfed.

Definatly no buff needed, but i'm not convinced it should be nerfed that much.

With this unit you don't need shermans, you can just spam your opponent to death, untill you have no infantry left. If 2 scotts are covering a VP, for example mid on "Alliance of Defience" behind a sight blocker, you have no way to cap it.
You dive, you get zooked.
You dive more you get skill planed.
You do skill planes, the guy just does GTFO and zook you while you diving. Extremely annoying.

Elpern once suggested to remove autoattack from Scott all together.

With this unit you don't need shermans, you can just spam your opponent to death, untill you have no infantry left. If 2 scotts are covering a VP, for example mid on "Alliance of Defience" behind a sight blocker, you have no way to cap it.
You dive, you get zooked.
You dive more you get skill planed.
You do skill planes, the guy just does GTFO and zook you while you diving. Extremely annoying.

Elpern once suggested to remove autoattack from Scott all together.

I've played a game where my teammate went for the exact same strat. Got nuked to hell time and time again by 3x stukas and then by sturmtiger locking the point on Rheine 3v3. From what I have seen, being mobile and playing across the field is the way to go vs scott + path zooks. Path zooks are extremely vulnerable to any sort of infantry or AI and scotts can't auto attack over sight blockers. I've seen people lose hard doing that s*** in 3v3. You don't dive zooks. Weak as they are, they can easily be spammed. The moment I see somebody using the path+scott combo I assume they are a massive noob. And if a player loses against it, even a bigger noob. Cancerous as it is, it's still a spam strategy, and all spam strategies are weak.

I've played a game where my teammate went for the exact same strat. Got nuked to hell time and time again by 3x stukas and then by sturmtiger locking the point on Rheine 3v3. From what I have seen, being mobile and playing across the field is the way to go vs scott + path zooks. Path zooks are extremely vulnerable to any sort of infantry or AI and scotts can't auto attack over sight blockers. I've seen people lose hard doing that s*** in 3v3. You don't dive zooks. Weak as they are, they can easily be spammed. The moment I see somebody using the path+scott combo I assume they are a massive noob. And if a player loses against it, even a bigger noob. Cancerous as it is, it's still a spam strategy, and all spam strategies are weak.

armor does not work because zooks + maybe occasional Jackson. Infantry does not work, because Scotts. Stukas are great, but they are questionable value vs competent opponent that has mobile army
Here is a POV from from good 2v2 player, btw this is not his first match vs this strat:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1169866360?t=03h52m41s

The issue is you can't simply outplay this in any traditional style + it is kind of ridiculous to think that you can get away with spamming mobile indirect. Cali spam can be annoying, but at least you can dive it, they have long reload + they are much more fragile and less mobile. Other indirect spams are either extremely fragile, or can be mitigated simply by repositioning (like lefh spam)

armor does not work because zooks + maybe occasional Jackson. Infantry does not work, because Scotts. Stukas are great, but they are questionable value vs competent opponent that has mobile army
Here is a POV from from good 2v2 player, btw this is not his first match vs this strat:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1169866360?t=03h52m41s

The issue is you can't simply outplay this in any traditional style + it is kind of ridiculous to think that you can get away with spamming mobile indirect. Cali spam can be annoying, but at least you can dive it, they have long reload + they are much more fragile and less mobile. Other indirect spams are either extremely fragile, or can be mitigated simply by repositioning (like lefh spam)

I use scotts in every single game once the jackson or pershing or something is out in the field (not with paths though) and I can tell you that there is not a single situation where you can't do something about it. I ain't watching 3 hours of some random person playing as a proof of anything. I really wouldn't trust anyone playing anything and defining some player as "good" or "bad".


Same as how these 3 are a top 5 arranged team in 3v3 and yet I sh** on 2 of them with a random team, leaving after 15 minutes (played a cancerous spio with flamers SPAM in town part of lienne with OST mortar spam). Don't trust people and their ranks. I'll assume that this dirty guy is a high ranked player and I won't get into 2v2 as I do not play it (seldom watch a tightrope cast when I'm cleaning my place) but I can say that 3v3 spam will never work. I've seen people try and abuse it and fall flat. Also some top 20 players in 3v3 and 2v2.

What I've seen work on most 3v3 maps vs scott + path:
a) Spread out infantry and constantly move them (requires micro)
b) If the enemy has 3+ scotts, then you must have a Panther at least.
c) Send infantry first and do not stop to fire, fire on the move.
( Scott is really toxic on a map like Lienne if you spawn up top. You can hide behind the railcar and spam on the VP, same as how Sturmtiger players have been doing it. Don't know about 2v2 but 3v3 is not really Scott spam friendly concerning maps. )

d) Use stuka before you push with infantry. This will trigger mines and displace the zook blob (and if you're lucky, kill some). Push with infantry and after the first zook volley send in the Panther after the scotts. Scotts might run away but I can guarantee you that you will take down a lot of paths.

One mistake that people do when playing against scott spam is probing the frontlines little by little. Scotts have 0 shock value, A-moving blobs into them is most effective. You force the player to use ground target IN FRONT of the blob to actually hit something, which requires micro. Unless they are some GOD of micro, the zooks will be ineffective.
You want to counter scott + paths?
Gather up your forces, send infantry along the margins of the map to the VP you want to cap (bottom or top), fire one stuka or ask the teammate to help you out with indirects. Keep moving the infantry towards the zooks and then send a tank or two on the other flank to go after the scotts. You require much less micro than the USF player trying to hold it together.

You can't dive one at a time. Like with every SPAM: You make a "Hail Mary" push. Axis is good with those. I mean I play USF exclusively in competitive and OKW in custom games. I won't talk about soviets nor UKF nor OST but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that USF spamming anything and working means that nobody actually tried to be creative to kill it. 2v2 you need to coordinate against spams. A lot of spams are really really annoying. Playing against werfer spams in lategame or JP4 walls combined with obers... it all requires creativity.

I admit that I don't know how to go against a player on Redball that has 2x JP4 and obers + ST or KT. It's a complete lane of a map. Obers dominate fully upgraded rifles from a distance. You need to close in, but if you do that, you go into possible stukas or KT or ST. You can't send tanks because JP4s melt everything. Once won against that only and only because Chris flanked. It was like I was going against a brick wall with a wooden spoon. Can't flank, there are no flanks. Can't smoke, risk a ST wipe. Can't go TD vs TD as JP4s dominate the jackson. Can't force obers to retreat as I have no rocket arty to carpet the frontline.
You just need to be creative.

Is scott + path spam effective? Yes
Is it OP? No
Will it be cracked? Yes

With this unit you don't need shermans, you can just spam your opponent to death, untill you have no infantry left. If 2 scotts are covering a VP, for example mid on "Alliance of Defience" behind a sight blocker, you have no way to cap it.
You dive, you get zooked.
You dive more you get skill planed.
You do skill planes, the guy just does GTFO and zook you while you diving. Extremely annoying.

Elpern once suggested to remove autoattack from Scott all together.

Scott auto-attack is already bad and you can definitively cap under a Scott auto-attack just by running in circle. Even Attack-ground will not works for the Scott.

Now as for any similar situation involving a saturation in defense, just attack somewhere else.

Otherwise, removing the auto-attack on scott would requires compensations to keep the unit viable, not sure people asking for it would like it.

I ain't watching 3 hours of some random person playing as a proof of anything.

the video has a timestamp.

No idea about 4v4 and 3v3. Talking straight from 2v2 perspective.

Are you dirty Finisher? what should we see from that game, blob vs blob?

Are you dirty Finisher? what should we see from that game, blob vs blob?

show me another video where similarly skilled player beats this strat. Protos Angelus himself said that infantry beats zookfinders and fusies are pretty good on the move. So tell me how this playstyle is wrong?

show me another video where similarly skilled player beats this strat. Protos Angelus himself said that infantry beats zookfinders and fusies are pretty good on the move. So tell me how this playstyle is wrong?

Didn't finish to watch the game but the guy just lost 2 Panthers doing the stupidest dives possible. Trade 1 RE + Ambu for 1 Panther and then nothing for 1 panther.

Now I'll just say that Dirty Finisher has been outplayed more than victim of a specific strategy.

Second thing is that he had 60 popcap worth only on infantry. Is it the right move to do vs 3xScott? Thank to the stupid advantage OKW has he never felt short of manpower.

I don't know if it exists a specific strat that automatically counter Scott/Path but what I know is blobbing infantry until having a panther does not work at equal skill level. Your opponent early game evolve around 0 snare and 0 sufficient AT until hitting critical zook mass with munition and you're waiting to build one of the most expensive tank in the game.

And in this game the USF player blobbed less than the OKW...

show me another video where similarly skilled player beats this strat. Protos Angelus himself said that infantry beats zookfinders and fusies are pretty good on the move. So tell me how this playstyle is wrong?

If only I cared enough to save most replays I'd show you 2 games in a row where I got paired with the same top 30 (or 60, can't remember precisely) USF player that used the strat in 3v3 and failed miserably. Literally got pushed back to base time after time by a super blob. Once on Whiteball, other time on the port of hamburgers.
I won't talk about 2v2 but I'm guessing it's not very different. 3v3 is 1v1 on each VP lane and 2v2 is 1.5 vs 1.5 on the mid lane.

Last things I'll say:
Scott is not OP in the slightest, not even with paths.
Spend less time arguing and asking for videos showing that scotts are OP and more time figuring out how to win vs this (novelty) spam idea. That's all there is to it. It's a novelty spam. I've seen what works vs it and I've written it down (blob + flank). I'm sure it can work in 2v2 as well. There is not a single person that can convince me that there exists a SPAM TACTIC that is foolproof. The whole game revolves around the idea of flanking, strategies, push-pull and combined arms and all of a sudden, somebody discovered a new spam idea and nobody dared to think it through and be patient enough to counter it.

Another 2v2 vs scott by Duffmann. No blobbing, playing from the textbook.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1182827898?t=02h00m23s

If anyone knows what exactly Duffmann should have done, without nitpicking, please share your thoughts. Maybe axis should spam heavy tank destroyers 24/7 to make 2v2 even more disgusting to play?

Another 2v2 vs scott by Duffmann. No blobbing, playing from the textbook.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1182827898?t=02h00m23s

If anyone knows what exactly Duffmann should have done, without nitpicking, please share your thoughts. Maybe axis should spam heavy tank destroyers 24/7 to make 2v2 even more disgusting to play?

HOLO searchlight to see as much as his opponent maybe, its a stock unit, you don't even need a doctrine. Then a stuka to catch his team weapon which was the backbone of Messe strategy until having scott&Jackson.

HOLO searchlight to see as much as his opponent maybe, its a stock unit, you don't even need a doctrine. Then a stuka to catch his team weapon which was the backbone of Messe strategy until having scott&Jackson.

earlier or later he the guy will build his comp and after that you are screwed.
And what about OST? Imo OST will have even more issues with that. They don't have reliable spotting options and sneaky 60 range TD to knock the Jackson out.
Also you can clearly hear the irritation in streamer's voice, since he encountered this type of thing before.