AGrens still have great up close combat ability, good mobility, decent armor, and 5 men. Then on top of that they have an ability that clears infantry in the open or buildings.
The grenade throw itself is very difficult to dodge the first bunch since the animation is quick, and the whole volley will wipe squads.
Because they are so survivable, and mobile, they can get in to throw and run.
45 munitions is a lot, however it's not that much in team games, and almost always kills its worth in manpower.
I suggest a toning down of the assault grenades by decreasing damage slightly. This will also help balance them now that units in buildings take extra grenade damage. Reduce the assault grenade damage such that units in the open take less damage than before, but units in buildings take a more.
Assault grenades too potent at 45 munitions
18 Nov 2013, 05:35 AM
#1
Posts: 401
18 Nov 2013, 06:05 AM
#2
Posts: 140
Because they are so survivable, and mobile, they can get in to throw and run.
So you are saying we should nerf the shock troops as well. They perform 10x better than AG and have that nasty smoke nade... which they use on my MG42. Lets not forget that you need to bring 2-3 squads to kill em.
18 Nov 2013, 06:27 AM
#3
Posts: 110
I disagree, Assault grenades aren't all that effective VS open squads, In my experience it kills 1-2 models tops, and does a small percentage of damage to the over all health.
18 Nov 2013, 06:30 AM
#4
2 
Posts: 1108
The grenade throw itself is very difficult to dodge the first bunch since the animation is quick, and the whole volley will wipe squads.
Every nade is difficult to dodge, with this delay imo
I've never seen, that this nade wipes out squads.  | Playercard of MoerserKarL | |||||||||||||||||||
|
18 Nov 2013, 07:18 AM
#5
Posts: 401
I've had them wipe squads rarely. However, it's the grenade combined with their mobility and damage that cause wipes against Soviet infantry as they can quickly follow up against anything retreating or trying to dodge. Or, the initial softening up as they move in followed by the grenades.
The smoke grenade may work on MGs, but not much else. And if Shocks are an issue, that's a separate balance issues for which you should make a thread.
May also be an issue with the input lag as well. Since I was issuing dodge orders left and right but my troops just weren't responding. The spread on these grenades is actually more helpful against infantry in the open, as you have to dodge move farther away, giving more time for the agrens to shoot.
Either way, fix the lags of various types, or fix the grenades.
The smoke grenade may work on MGs, but not much else. And if Shocks are an issue, that's a separate balance issues for which you should make a thread.
May also be an issue with the input lag as well. Since I was issuing dodge orders left and right but my troops just weren't responding. The spread on these grenades is actually more helpful against infantry in the open, as you have to dodge move farther away, giving more time for the agrens to shoot.
Either way, fix the lags of various types, or fix the grenades.
18 Nov 2013, 09:29 AM
#6
15 
Posts: 786
probably the worst nade in the game, topped with the fact that you need all models to be alive to throw 5, which never happens.
at 60 muni it had the same price of a zis barrage or a satchel being nowhere as good
at 60 muni it had the same price of a zis barrage or a satchel being nowhere as good
20 Nov 2013, 11:45 AM
#7
1 Posts: 927
AGrens still have great up close combat ability, good mobility, decent armor, and 5 men. Then on top of that they have an ability that clears infantry in the open or buildings.
The grenade throw itself is very difficult to dodge the first bunch since the animation is quick, and the whole volley will wipe squads.
welcome to the world of soviet grenades.
28 Nov 2013, 00:17 AM
#8
Posts: 419
Ive had all 5 grenades land on grouped up squads and have never wiped a full squad. I stopped bothering with throwing them in buildings. I did have one time where it wiped a 6 man mg out of building but that was one out of 1000 nades Ive thrown. Most of the nades tend to just take off a sliver of health. I really wish ostheer had a cost effective, simple,single potato masher.
28 Nov 2013, 11:58 AM
#9
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedAgreed with everyone else. The Nade is fine for cost, and especially on an assault unit.
Protip:You can pre-emptively throw Molotovs to block AGrens and Pgrens getting into Nade range. Its suicidal to enter the flame field for the Nades throw time.
Also, where did you get it into to your head that Nades do more to garrisons now?
Patch notes only specify Flamer and Mortar as more effective.
Protip:You can pre-emptively throw Molotovs to block AGrens and Pgrens getting into Nade range. Its suicidal to enter the flame field for the Nades throw time.
Also, where did you get it into to your head that Nades do more to garrisons now?
Patch notes only specify Flamer and Mortar as more effective.
28 Nov 2013, 12:14 PM
#10
6 
Posts: 600
Ass grens is easy to counter in 1v1.... Clown car with flames wins. Also posh conscripts and and shocks outperform them. And finally most favorite unit for all soviets t70. I really don't see how you can loose to ass grens.In 2v2 its a little harder I agree but still beatable
28 Nov 2013, 15:29 PM
#11
Posts: 688
I've had entire con squads eliminated by it, yes.
But it's a lot of ammo to the usually ammo-starved german player.
I'd almost say it's a good bargain to trade a half-dead con squad for 45 ammo in the late game...(almost)
Plus the wipe only succeeds if the soviet player isn't paying attention.
So no, I don't think it needs change.
But it's a lot of ammo to the usually ammo-starved german player.
I'd almost say it's a good bargain to trade a half-dead con squad for 45 ammo in the late game...(almost)
Plus the wipe only succeeds if the soviet player isn't paying attention.
So no, I don't think it needs change.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
2 Dec 2013, 19:37 PM
#12
Posts: 8
I just finished a game where my assaults grenadiers did successfully defeat the conscripts early game, yet I can't seem to see how the nade is op. Its cost is high and its effectiveness, meh...
2 Dec 2013, 19:54 PM
#13
Posts: 644
The few times I have witnessed Agrens throwing their firecrackers even my Conscripts were pretty unmoved by their performance.
5 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
3 Dec 2013, 13:06 PM
#14
Posts: 168
Ass grens is easy to counter in 1v1.... Clown car with flames wins. Also posh conscripts and and shocks outperform them. And finally most favorite unit for all soviets t70. I really don't see how you can loose to ass grens.In 2v2 its a little harder I agree but still beatable
Causes me trouble in 1v1 if they all rush my cutoff sector at the beginning. 3 squads is hard enough to fend off even with the flame car and once tier 2 hits it becomes even harder and i'm starved for fuel and bleeding like crazy
i'm not really complaining, just saying
3 Dec 2013, 22:43 PM
#15
6 Posts: 600
Causes me trouble in 1v1 if they all rush my cutoff sector at the beginning. 3 squads is hard enough to fend off even with the flame car and once tier 2 hits it becomes even harder and i'm starved for fuel and bleeding like crazy
i'm not really complaining, just saying
As other people said just sit in a house and laugh at the pathetic tries of ass grens to deal damage. Played a game against a guy who used them, bassically only thing I did was sitting in the building vs 2 ass grens with 1 cons squad while the other 3 were capping the area. If you see them move away to cap something else just get out and start capping while waiting for them to come back, because they will and then camp the house again. This will, make them waste time decaping important areas and not capping anything else while you cap. This tactic works in semoiyski and kholodny kharkov is even easier. I have trouble against them on minsk though.
4 Dec 2013, 00:05 AM
#16
Posts: 168
As other people said just sit in a house and laugh at the pathetic tries of ass grens to deal damage. Played a game against a guy who used them, bassically only thing I did was sitting in the building vs 2 ass grens with 1 cons squad while the other 3 were capping the area. If you see them move away to cap something else just get out and start capping while waiting for them to come back, because they will and then camp the house again. This will, make them waste time decaping important areas and not capping anything else while you cap. This tactic works in semoiyski and kholodny kharkov is even easier. I have trouble against them on minsk though.
Not all maps have houses at cutoffs and not having the cutoff means no fuel or munitions even if you manage to hold some of those sectors
Your opponent must not have been too experienced if he was attacking the house
Could be I'm doing something very wrong but this cutoff rush has been a bit of a problem lately, for me anyways. Not necessarily always with assault grens either
4 Dec 2013, 01:30 AM
#17
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Langres North D:
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
4 Dec 2013, 23:30 PM
#18
Posts: 577
Also, where did you get it into to your head that Nades do more to garrisons now?
If I recall correctly all AoE weapons have a 1.5 radius vs garrisons which means they have a higher chance of hitting multiple entities, aka deal more dmg. That's all AoE, not just nades.
Fun Fact: That was also why sometimes mortar rounds and riflenades instagibbed a building - it had a small and a high crit, the small being 1.25 and the big being 6 times the AoE (not entirely sure about the numbers), which caused it do deal massively more dmg to the building. Now it's always a fixed amount.
5 Dec 2013, 08:56 AM
#19
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedSo explosives (including Nades) are always a flat 1.5x AoE radius increase vs units in garrisons now then?
Does it affect Molotov too?
Wish they had specified that in the patch notes...
Does it affect Molotov too?
Wish they had specified that in the patch notes...
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