Relic, I have a question.

like it was said many times before
the tiger ace it NOT for free
its the most expensive unit in the game!

the way to win against the tiger ace is to let the german player bleeding in mp

Those losses were my fault completely. Bad tank micro especially with the t34/85s. The point being is u got to stick it out. I could have rammed him with the first 2 t34s but I failed.

YOU HAVE NEW HIGH SCORE IN TIGERRAM2!!!!

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_ _ _ 280,102,232 Points

Those losses were my fault completely. Bad tank micro especially with the t34/85s. The point being is u got to stick it out. I could have rammed him with the first 2 t34s but I failed.

Or you could have rammed it and failed anyway.

like it was said many times before
the tiger ace it NOT for free
its the most expensive unit in the game!

the way to win against the tiger ace is to let the german player bleeding in mp

To reimbursemthe cost as Sov, on terms of attrition, we are talking about dozens of Gren reinforrcements just to break equal, and thats not even considering fuel.

And that is also considering Osts lack of resource income thereafter.
The numbers just dont add up. Its a huge, free, upfront, loan.

Not only that, but the TA on the field, will hurt your ass like a n angry cactus.
It bleeds YOU at almost the same rate you bleed Ost back.

I cba to crunch the actual figures of how much attrition Sov needs to cause on MP (dozens of grens was an exaggeration) + The lost income on Ost side, but its enormous vs the resource value of the TA.

You are right that it is "the most expensive unit in the game", but Sov is the one who ends up paying that bill, not only by causing attrition to Ost, but internall by how this super-unit will fuck your shit up.

I am speaking strictly from 1v1s.

Just had a tiger ace game as a soviet and got the armored assault doctrine (amazing doc btw) and waited. It was a pretty evenly matched game, he built some real painful units and vetted them pretty quick. I was dealing with vet 3 sniper and vet 3 pgrens with shreks and one without most of the game. Whenever there was a lull in the fighting I put down mines. I mined the bridge to my base (semois), I mined the crossroads and I mined everywhere I felt he would take his tiger.

Well around 7 CPs he still had a good amount of infantry and I had 2 t34s, a double vet at gun and 4 vetted cons. I felt I was ready. With radio intercept I knew the TA was coming. I braced myself and hope he would hit a mine. To my chagrin he bypassed all my mines and didn't take any roads. I sent in my t34s to ram since my is2 was almost ready to come out, sent my cons, and sent my at gun. The t34s exploded, my at gun got some decent penetrating shots injuring him a little, and my cons got the 4th at nade to do engine damage. In the course of that same battle my is2 hit the field and got there as my armor and at gun were gone. The is2 went to battle for a minute or so before I pulled back badly damaged. The TA was also damaged pretty good but my opponent also had vet 3 pios, my infantry was already chased off the field from his attacking infantry accompanying the tiger.

Ok I'm rambling so long story short I lost the is2 shortly after, another at gun, and 2 t34/85s. However, his once invisible infantry were not showing up in the field fully reinforced. I knew he was out of reinforcements. I got one more t34 and sent it in with another at fun and finally got the outcome I wanted, the ram was succesful (first try) and he had no gun and heavy engine damage. Then I just let my at gun do all the work. Point is, just stick it out vs the TA. Eventually he will have no infantry and you will have moments to reinforce. It's not OP at all.

It sounds like you basically already had the German player by the balls before the tiger ace even came out. If you somehow managed to get 2 t34, an IS-2, and then moments later a pair of T34/85s, I would expect there to be at least 3 or 4 panthers next to the tiger ace would it have been an even game. I see this kind of reply all the time, you could have summed up your post as: "The trick I used to beat the ace was playing against an inferior opponent and getting a huge lead before the ace came out". It does not help.

The game I described in the opening post was much different. Our armies were matched, and his tiger ace, combined with the rest of his army, simply crushed mine and then proceeded to destroy my base. Tips like bleeding infantry, capping the map etc are totally meaningless, because the German player doesn't give a flying F about income anymore and he will just base rush you. Things like falling back and mining will maybe buy you a minute or two, but that is barely enough to get a single AT gun out; 1, that's about 5 less than are going to need.

Or you could have rammed it and failed anyway.

Rams have worked against me 100% of the time, and for me 100% of the time. Guess I am lucky/unlucky when it comes to rng gods. The match was even, I was just saving resources and avoiding mp draining fights where I could, the TA isn't a suprise u know it's coming the entire game. Prepare for it. It it gets engine damaged and a good amount of health taken off it can really buy you time. Remember he isn't making new units , you are. Be a soviet and steamroll and spam as intended!

Rams have worked against me 100% of the time, and for me 100% of the time. Guess I am lucky/unlucky when it comes to rng gods. The match was even, I was just saving resources and avoiding mp draining fights where I could, the TA isn't a suprise u know it's coming the entire game. Prepare for it. It it gets engine damaged and a good amount of health taken off it can really buy you time. Remember he isn't making new units , you are. Be a soviet and steamroll and spam as intended!

If it was an even game, but you were saving a but load of resources (enough for an IS-2, and a bit later an AT gun and 2 T34/85s!), it was not an even game. An even game requires you to spend the same resources as your enemy in order to combat him, and the winner is slowly determined by who makes the best use of tactics and counters.

I'll look at replay since you are making a little bit of a point. Regardless my other points are valid. You know it's coming, prepare. Late game you could be stacking fuel and munis and remember your mp upkeep is quickly replenished when you lose a lot of your army (the reason there are so many comebacks in coh2). You could quickly get another at gun or t34 or call-in while he is getting absolutely NADA.

To reimbursemthe cost as Sov, on terms of attrition, we are talking about dozens of Gren reinforrcements just to break equal, and thats not even considering fuel.

And that is also considering Osts lack of resource income thereafter.
The numbers just dont add up. Its a huge, free, upfront, loan.

Not only that, but the TA on the field, will hurt your ass like a n angry cactus.
It bleeds YOU at almost the same rate you bleed Ost back.

I cba to crunch the actual figures of how much attrition Sov needs to cause on MP (dozens of grens was an exaggeration) + The lost income on Ost side, but its enormous vs the resource value of the TA.

You are right that it is "the most expensive unit in the game", but Sov is the one who ends up paying that bill, not only by causing attrition to Ost, but internall by how this super-unit will fuck your shit up.

+1

High reward, 0 risk.

Usually people call the Tiger Ace when they are going to lose the game anyway. I don't see any risk there.
If by chance you use the TA when the game is even is because it doesn't consume popcap and that way you can have a much larger army than your enemy and give him the finishing blow.

Tiger Ace is a free ticket for another chance to win the game. It's a moronic unit and it should be nerfed or redesigned.

last time i checked it did. you cant have an army worth 100 pop + TA

last time i checked it did. you cant have an army worth 100 pop + TA

Maybe I'm wrong. I don't have the commander to prove it.

Maybe someone can confirm how many population consumes the TA.

Maybe I'm wrong. I don't have the commander to prove it.

Maybe someone can confirm how many population consumes the TA.

im almost 100 precent sure its 20 to 25.

could be wrong gotta check.

Tiger Ace is at 24 pop. same as the standard tiger.

Being a quite fond of the TA myself, but in no way what one could call a fanboi, i spent way to much time thinking of fixes for this unit since i really dont want to lose that "you got to win this, tiger" feel it has to it. yet i see the flaw in its current design (no wait, thats not the problem. its STRENGTH is the problem)

The flaw is that its strengths aren't designed properly.

The strengths of the Tiger Ace come at a trade-off. A very poorly designed, tested, and implemented one, but a trade-off nonetheless. I imagine that it was designed without taking into account the actual state of the game, which is already extremely strained concerning resource management and unit balance.

If the Tiger Ace shut off only manpower income, but the doctrine also came with an ability akin to Manpower blitz(vCoH doctrine ability where munitions would be spent to give a sudden boost to manpower.) THEN the Tiger Ace's trade off would make more sense, as map control would still remain an important component of the game. Currently it's really just a freebie for any match that is a lost cause. Blunder in the first five minutes? Pick the TA commander and delay the game.

Also, even if the strategy for beating the Tiger Ace is to wait it out until the german player is out of resources, the strategy for winning with the Tiger Ace appears to be... waiting it out until enough CPs tick in.

Beat waiting it out with waiting it out. FUN. I love waiting.

One of the things that should be removed is its ability to two-shot a ZiS, killing the crew and destroying the weapon.

And the "Stop resource income" is not well designed, as all players just use TA when the game is utterly lost (less than 50 VPs) and income doesn't matter anymore.
It gives the feel of being a complete free tank without any drawbacks.