The state of Sturmtiger
8 Aug 2021, 14:29 PM
#161
Posts: 786 | Subs: 1
i want my katyushas to have 1400 health points and basically invincibility to mediums from the front
the coh2.org forum experience:
8 Aug 2021, 15:33 PM
#162
Posts: 472
you only need 1 medium tank to kill it which is less risky to flank a kv8 with 2 panthers.
I think this one sentence pretty much says all about your level...
Good lcuk with killing ST with one medium tank
I wish you a lot of luck.You will gonna need it to put 8 penetrated shots before getting 4 shots.
8 Aug 2021, 15:54 PM
#163
Posts: 9
St definitely needs a nerf
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8 Aug 2021, 16:28 PM
#164
Posts: 40 | Subs: 1
The problem with the sturmtiger is a combination of the range, health, and a small trick that allows you to start the firing animation before youre in range of the shot and it basically fires instantly when it does reach that point. Effectively becomes undodgeable for support weapons and some vehicles.
8 Aug 2021, 16:34 PM
#165
Posts: 1289
You described Allied arty. But its completely ok when the allies do it?
Allied arty does not garantee a wipe its about area denail more then wiping. Those allied arties only garantee a wipe if you mass or spam them. That is how powerfull the st is.
You do know why the demo isu b4 precision strike su76/zisbarrage bunker buster got nerfed before right? To easy to get, keep alive, to low cost, to much reward for minimal to no input.
That you constantly point the finger elsewhere instead of where the problem actualy lies is mind numbing.
8 Aug 2021, 17:06 PM
#166
Posts: 770
Allied arty does not garantee a wipe its about area denail more then wiping. Those allied arties only garantee a wipe if you mass or spam them. That is how powerfull the st is.
This a big fat fucking lie. 90 % of the squad wipes i suffer is through allied arty. Even if there is no squad wipe you can bet it still drains mp.
That you constantly point the finger elsewhere instead of where the problem actualy lies is mind numbing.
WTF? axis players have been dealing with high damage AI AOE units that are defended with at guns for years now. Now that you are on the receiving end of the same strat its suddenly op. and ST didnt receive many buffs. Its still a kitten compared to the ST of old.
8 Aug 2021, 18:48 PM
#168
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
WTF? axis players have been dealing with high damage AI AOE units that are defended with at guns for years now. Now that you are on the receiving end of the same strat its suddenly op. and ST didnt receive many buffs. Its still a kitten compared to the ST of old.
This is absolute garbage. People need to seriously stop making this about axis and allies. I play both sides, the ST is ridiculous
You're also completely fucking wrong, ST recieved a massive buff. No longer being decrewed while reloading was a huge change. Completely changed how you can use the unit
I think the de-crew mechanic was stupid, but it was a balancing mechanism. Now you can just troll around the map without much of a worry
8 Aug 2021, 19:36 PM
#169
Posts: 770
I think the de-crew mechanic was stupid, but it was a balancing mechanism. Now you can just troll around the map without much of a worry
Is this any different then Allied arty who just use superior range to stay out of trouble?
8 Aug 2021, 20:23 PM
#170
Posts: 100
Is this any different then Allied arty who just use superior range to stay out of trouble?
I defer to you, the pro. Please show us nabs how to play allies without flanking and by the use of artillery (which has the same range across factions btw). Please blob your entire infantry army (and tanks if you decide to get them) and have the rest of your army be composed of calliopes supported by a few AT guns. I will patiently await replays demonstrating your skill and maybe get some ideas on how to counter the Sturmtiger, which is totally the same thing.
8 Aug 2021, 20:26 PM
#171
Posts: 1289
This a big fat fucking lie. 90 % of the squad wipes i suffer is through allied arty. Even if there is no squad wipe you can bet it still drains mp.
WTF? axis players have been dealing with high damage AI AOE units that are defended with at guns for years now. Now that you are on the receiving end of the same strat its suddenly op. and ST didnt receive many buffs. Its still a kitten compared to the ST of old.
I am guessing you play 3s and 4s. If only wipes you suffer are from arty your either a camper or blobber.
Axis winning 3s and 4s close to 75% until about a year or 2 ago. So that suffering at the high ai aoe units holds little water.
And it doesnt matter if the st is a kitten compared to way back then, its a very low risk low input relative low cost with absolute maximum reward unit. A combination wich does not belong in this game. The isu costs a lot more and requires more input and it doesnt garantee a wipe.
8 Aug 2021, 20:38 PM
#172
Posts: 213
Sturmtiger is overpeforming. Stats (Elite armor is most picked doc from 2vs2 to 4vs4 while okw does fairly well in these gamemodes) and the majority of the (competent) playerbase agrees. No need for another 3 pages of useless unit/faction comparing and strawman arguments.
What should be discussed is how to nerf this unit without making it complete obsolete again. I think both changes in the last patch are fine and made the STiger viable. A cost increase (10CP and more fuel) is mandatory imo. Im not sure whether the unit needs more cooldown or a penalty while reloading (stands still, increased dmg)
What should be discussed is how to nerf this unit without making it complete obsolete again. I think both changes in the last patch are fine and made the STiger viable. A cost increase (10CP and more fuel) is mandatory imo. Im not sure whether the unit needs more cooldown or a penalty while reloading (stands still, increased dmg)
8 Aug 2021, 21:02 PM
#173
Posts: 1515
Sturmtiger is overpeforming. Stats (Elite armor is most picked doc from 2vs2 to 4vs4 while okw does fairly well in these gamemodes) and the majority of the (competent) playerbase agrees. No need for another 3 pages of useless unit/faction comparing and strawman arguments.
What should be discussed is how to nerf this unit without making it complete obsolete again. I think both changes in the last patch are fine and made the STiger viable. A cost increase (10CP and more fuel) is mandatory imo. Im not sure whether the unit needs more cooldown or a penalty while reloading (stands still, increased dmg)
Def a price increase. 10 CP is fine
Removal of self-spotting. No range increase through vet (40 at all vets)
Fix the fast fire bug (cannon aiming while moving)
While reloading, the ST is immobile.
For it's AOE, HP, armour it's just a completely broken unit
I think that would fix the unit.
Price/CP goes without saying
Self spotting -- OKW has a lot of recon units and the non-recon units should not provide extra sight
Fast fire bug -- well it's a cheesy bug people exploit
Immobile ST -- Seen a lot of frontline reload just because it can. 220+ armour and [1280,1440] HP says "I don't care about your TDs because I have my dual raketen and unless you have 4 TDs (eg max pop), you're not killing my ST"
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8 Aug 2021, 21:33 PM
#174
Posts: 306
Is this any different then Allied arty who just use superior range to stay out of trouble?
dude, there are things called "axis" arty, like lfh stuka werfer, all very potent and on the level of allied arty. Stop comparing ST to completely different units, this is getting retardet.
Nobody complained about those units, so i dont get the whine.
I get wiped by werfer close range and stuka , just as I get from kata close range
this has nothing to do with sturmtiger
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8 Aug 2021, 22:09 PM
#175
Posts: 770
dude, there are things called "axis" arty, like lfh stuka werfer, all very potent and on the level of allied arty. Stop comparing ST to completely different units, this is getting retardet.
Nobody complained about those units, so i dont get the whine.
Thats a big fat fucking lie
Nobody complained because axis arty generally has less range less damage and fewer missiles in every barrage, so its squad wiping potential is limited.
ST still work on the same principal as any other arty so the correct approach is to compare them to other arty pieces. And while the ST is potent the calliope still does a better job
8 Aug 2021, 23:07 PM
#176
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
ST still work on the same principal as any other arty so the correct approach is to compare them to other arty pieces.
Name another artillery piece that has 1280 health and 220 armor
Dude you are out of your mind. Literally one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen on this forum
8 Aug 2021, 23:46 PM
#177
Posts: 100
Name another artillery piece that has 1280 health and 220 armor
Dude you are out of your mind. Literally one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen on this forum
He's getting pretty emotional, tbh. You're not going to convince him of anything else while he's this invested. He clearly derives a lot of personal joy from the use of the Sturmtiger, and nerfing it would probably be akin to stealing his child.
9 Aug 2021, 02:38 AM
#178
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
Def a price increase. 10 CP is fine
Removal of self-spotting. No range increase through vet (40 at all vets)
Fix the fast fire bug (cannon aiming while moving)
While reloading, the ST is immobile.
For it's AOE, HP, armour it's just a completely broken unit
I think that would fix the unit.
i honestly wasn't even aware of the fast fire bug until yesterday when i saw one of tightrope's casts.
out of all things this bug/exploit is probably what turns the ST from an excellent, maybe slightly too good unit into completely bonkers. seems as if you can skip the entire wind-up animation while moving, giving you essentially 5 to 10 m more range to fire at your unsuspecting target from way beyond visual range. the fact that this doesn't require any special setup, unlike preparing an ambush from behind a sight blocker, combined with the high lethality of the round and zero chance to evade it is just broken and unparalleled by any other unit in the game.
for those who don't know what i'm talking about this is the video.
i agree with all items on the list, but this bug needs to get the highest priority for a fix by far.
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9 Aug 2021, 04:26 AM
#179
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
i honestly wasn't even aware of the fast fire bug until yesterday when i saw one of tightrope's casts.
out of all things this bug/exploit is probably what turns the ST from an excellent, maybe slightly too good unit into completely bonkers. seems as if you can skip the entire wind-up animation while moving, giving you essentially 5 to 10 m more range to fire at your unsuspecting target from way beyond visual range. the fact that this doesn't require any special setup, unlike preparing an ambush from behind a sight blocker, combined with the high lethality of the round and zero chance to evade it is just broken and unparalleled by any other unit in the game.
for those who don't know what i'm talking about this is the video.
i agree with all items on the list, but this bug needs to get the highest priority for a fix by far.
I know people have been calling this an "exploit", but this is very similar to glide shooting. Same thing that happens when OKW goes to scavenge and they don't pull their blow torches out for 2-3 seconds. Difference is this is a 1 shot wipe machine
9 Aug 2021, 06:56 AM
#180
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Def a price increase. 10 CP is fine
Removal of self-spotting. No range increase through vet (40 at all vets)
Fix the fast fire bug (cannon aiming while moving)
While reloading, the ST is immobile.
For it's AOE, HP, armour it's just a completely broken unit
I think that would fix the unit.
Price/CP goes without saying
Self spotting -- OKW has a lot of recon units and the non-recon units should not provide extra sight
Fast fire bug -- well it's a cheesy bug people exploit
Immobile ST -- Seen a lot of frontline reload just because it can. 220+ armour and [1280,1440] HP says "I don't care about your TDs because I have my dual raketen and unless you have 4 TDs (eg max pop), you're not killing my ST"
1 - Correcting the bug letting it firing almost on the move
2 - Range 30, no upgrade with vet. This unit has massive armor and health then let's make a use of it.
3 - Has to be stopped to reload and debuff while reloading: take 100% more damage.
4 - CP 12 and fuel price to 230 like any other heavy tank.
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