Show me your award-winning penal build that gets out a ZIS gun before a T70 because I'm pretty sure that most people go with the T70 first so they can deal with axis elites in a penal build.
What are you high or have you never played the game. That is the most stupid statement that I'v heard from you.
PTRS Penals and Soviet vs Ostheer balance
22 Jun 2021, 14:59 PM
#41
Posts: 1379
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
22 Jun 2021, 15:15 PM
#42
Posts: 1563
Show me your award-winning penal build that gets out a ZIS gun before a T70 because I'm pretty sure that most people go with the T70 first so they can deal with axis elites in a penal build.
Right some how the over all cost of going to T3 dropping down by 20 fuel makes going Penals first and the T2 which costs 15 fuel significantly slow down your T70.
I'm sorry the math doesn't add up.
22 Jun 2021, 18:14 PM
#43
Posts: 5279
Damage is damage regardless if you call it Alpha beta or gamma.
Even sander93 point out that the DPS of PTRS Panls vs mediums are comparable with other AT infatry.
i disagree whole heartedly here. the more damage that is front loaded the less chance of counter play. in both AI and AT burst damage is king.
te ptrs penals ARE finally on par with other AT squads, but the delivery is still important.
like i said, its as effective as the enemy allows it to be. its high enough that it needs to be respected, which is the entire point, but necessarily a game changing threat. its AT area denial. its AT overwatch that forces the enemy out of the area vs stuka AT strafe that will delete a tank if its not moved immediately
the way damage is delivered is fundamental to any game that has damage and there is almost always the devision of burst damage vs steady chip damage.
were not saying that the PTRS is BAD, just that its different. it cant do some things that other hand AT does, and instead does something else. it doesnt take 1/3 of a tanks health out in a blink, but it will if its gets to plink. that doesnt make it OP, just different.
#stalinwept
22 Jun 2021, 18:18 PM
#44
Posts: 1379
Right some how the over all cost of going to T3 dropping down by 20 fuel makes going Penals first and the T2 which costs 15 fuel significantly slow down your T70.
I'm sorry the math doesn't add up.
You're buying a ZIS gun. That costs 320 manpower. Also, you're buying T2, which costs 20 fuel. Do I really have to explain it?
Even if you just buy T2 (why would you do that if you're not even going to get the zis?) the T70 is coming out slower than if you didn't. The slower you get it out, the less time it has in its window to be the most impactful on the game.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
22 Jun 2021, 18:32 PM
#45
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
i disagree whole heartedly here. the more damage that is front loaded the less chance of counter play. in both AI and AT burst damage is king.
te ptrs penals ARE finally on par with other AT squads, but the delivery is still important.
like i said, its as effective as the enemy allows it to be. its high enough that it needs to be respected, which is the entire point, but necessarily a game changing threat. its AT area denial. its AT overwatch that forces the enemy out of the area vs stuka AT strafe that will delete a tank if its not moved immediately
the way damage is delivered is fundamental to any game that has damage and there is almost always the devision of burst damage vs steady chip damage.
were not saying that the PTRS is BAD, just that its different. it cant do some things that other hand AT does, and instead does something else. it doesnt take 1/3 of a tanks health out in a blink, but it will if its gets to plink. that doesnt make it OP, just different.
Than you have to read my post in context the claim because someone did say that PTRS is bad:
"PTRS are fully meant to hardcounter lights.. and they are much more competitive against med armor now, but nowhere near other handheld AT."
"because chip damage is irrelevant, only burst matters"
and these claim are is simply BS.
A vehicle will die from PTRS shot regardless if it alpa or not, so it does matter,a damage is almost guaranteed I might add.
22 Jun 2021, 18:44 PM
#46
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Right some how the over all cost of going to T3 dropping down by 20 fuel makes going Penals first and the T2 which costs 15 fuel significantly slow down your T70.
I'm sorry the math doesn't add up.
Fuel isn't the only resource that matters here
22 Jun 2021, 20:29 PM
#47
Posts: 5279
Than you have to read my post in context the claim because someone did say that PTRS is bad:
"PTRS are fully meant to hardcounter lights.. and they are much more competitive against med armor now, but nowhere near other handheld AT."
"because chip damage is irrelevant, only burst matters"
and these claim are is simply BS.
A vehicle will die from PTRS shot regardless if it alpa or not, so it does matter,a damage is almost guaranteed I might add.
Its not like other AT in that it's chip damage. Because of the power in alpha damage it ISN'T of the caliber of other AT weapons, though it's just as good. If that makes sense.
Also saying things will die regardless of damage is like likening a molitov to a bundled nade because both will kill infantry. The faster the damage is dealt the more Likley it is to be lethal.
The ptrs is good, but it's good in a different way.
#stalinwept
22 Jun 2021, 20:42 PM
#48
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
The ptrs is good, but it's good in a different way.
I know that, it is others that claim "chip damage is irrelevant, only burst matters"
22 Jun 2021, 21:35 PM
#49
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Damage is damage regardless if you call it Alpha beta or gamma.
Even sander93 point out that the DPS of PTRS Panls vs mediums are comparable with other AT infatry.
Do you have another attack of severe selective memory? Forgot already how last one ended for you?
Because Sander said that in context of stationary penals vs tanks and they LOST all the tests in question.
And if you really, honestly, genuinely believe that "damage is damage" and alpha strike is irrelevant, please tell me, why all the alpha damage units in the game, from sniper to sturmtiger/JT were nerfed to deal much less damage, shoot more slowly, NOT have that alpha hit at all and had it replaced for "reliability"(B4 anyone?) or were made dependent on other units?
Alpha damage might not matter at whatever scrub rank in 4v4 RT meatgrinder you play, but it most definitely does matter a whole lot in 1s and 2s, especially when all players involved know how to play just as good as google for stats.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Jun 2021, 22:14 PM
#50
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Do you have another attack of severe selective memory? Forgot already how last one ended for you?
Because Sander said that in context of stationary penals vs tanks and they LOST all the tests in question.
And if you really, honestly, genuinely believe that "damage is damage" and alpha strike is irrelevant, please tell me, why all the alpha damage units in the game, from sniper to sturmtiger/JT were nerfed to deal much less damage, shoot more slowly, NOT have that alpha hit at all and had it replaced for "reliability"(B4 anyone?) or were made dependent on other units?
Alpha damage might not matter at whatever scrub rank in 4v4 RT meatgrinder you play, but it most definitely does matter a whole lot in 1s and 2s, especially when all players involved know how to play just as good as google for stats.
Now you are simply inventing things, I never said "alpha strike is irrelevant" on the contrary it was you who claim "chip damage is irrelevant" (and that is simply BS.)
You are also confusing things, squad wipe potential from big explosions has very little with the issue which is PTRS damage.
No matter how much twist you try to bring PTRS are simply not bad vs medium tanks.
22 Jun 2021, 22:16 PM
#51
Posts: 658
maybe you should get some facts to refute my post. all of this, what i wrote, are facts.
The fact of the matter is that you are bad end of story. Who the hell cries about PTRS, that is like crying Molotovs are OP vs LEFH Weapon Crews.
A PTRS only does 14 damage with a FAR penetration of 70 and 25% deflection damage which is roughly 3.5 damage if the PTRS does not penetrate (which it most likely wont)
The average tank has roughly 640 -800 HP (not including Heavy Tanks) so assuming that the PTRS penetrates every single time (it wont) it would take anywhere between 40-60 hits depending on the tank you are hitting to kill it.
Are you AFK while you let them hit your tanks?
PTRS is good for light vehicles such as Clown Car, Halftracks, Luch's even though thats more a soft counter.
So essentially you are just bad at the game, which is ok and rather than complain something is OP you should instead ask for ways to dealing with the unit which is exactly why we have strategy forums on COH2.org
22 Jun 2021, 22:18 PM
#52
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The fact of the matter is that you are bad end of story. Who the hell cries about PTRS, that is like crying Molotovs are OP vs LEFH Weapon Crews.
A PTRS only does 14 damage with a FAR penetration of 70 and 25% deflection damage which is roughly 3.5 damage if the PTRS does not penetrate (which it most likely wont)
The average tank has roughly 640 -800 HP (not including Heavy Tanks) so assuming that the PTRS penetrates every single time (it wont) it would take anywhere between 40-60 hits depending on the tank you are hitting to kill it.
Are you AFK while you let them hit your tanks?
PTRS is good for light vehicles such as Clown Car, Halftracks, Luch's even though thats more a soft counter.
So essentially you are just bad at the game, which is ok and rather than complain something is OP you should instead ask for ways to dealing with the unit which is exactly why we have strategy forums on COH2.org
That is incorrect PTRS does 40 damage on penetration and 10 damage on deflection.
22 Jun 2021, 23:12 PM
#53
Posts: 4928
6 men dps monsters vs 4 men shitty k98k ? Until you get lmg42 you will suffer great manpower losses.
Those "shitty k98k" do slightly more damage than an SVT.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
22 Jun 2021, 23:12 PM
#54
Posts: 518
Alpha damage might not matter at whatever scrub rank in 4v4 RT meatgrinder you play, but it most definitely does matter a whole lot in 1s and 2s, especially when all players involved know how to play just as good as google for stats.
I guess its high time to get that first ever soviet game going then and see how actually "op" it is compared to what it sounds, eh?
Always funny when players that don't even play the game accuse others of being "4 vs 4 Scrubs" or not playing a certain faction (despite their Playercard clearly showing the opposite in both cases)
I am not sure why people keep bringing this up but it has clearly been demonstrate the PTRS Penal have similar DPS with other AT infantry vs mediums.
Do they? Just tested it and this doesn't seem to be the case (from the side / rear it might be possible but not from the front) ... but then again PTRS is cheaper, (more precise ... at least it really feels this way), givies snare and leaves the unit probably with much more AI power
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
22 Jun 2021, 23:50 PM
#55
Posts: 1563
You're buying a ZIS gun. That costs 320 manpower. Also, you're buying T2, which costs 20 fuel. Do I really have to explain it?
Even if you just buy T2 (why would you do that if you're not even going to get the zis?) the T70 is coming out slower than if you didn't. The slower you get it out, the less time it has in its window to be the most impactful on the game.
Here me out, the T70 used to come out at 8 min earliest, not it comes out at 7 min earliest. You really saying building a t2 and getting a zis will push you back so much that you that it'll reach p4 timing. Are you joking????
23 Jun 2021, 01:06 AM
#56
Posts: 307
Here me out, the T70 used to come out at 8 min earliest, not it comes out at 7 min earliest. You really saying building a t2 and getting a zis will push you back so much that you that it'll reach p4 timing. Are you joking????
Yes.
> back tech T2 take time to build, resouce.
> need another 320mp to build Zis, and yet build time.
> Not to mention you has to fight around that times so bleeding, losing fuel,ammu... is a thing too. Yet going back to T2 means would buy maxim, mortar = more mp spend to another places, delay your tier 4 alot.
< in another hands, Axis could comeback because Sov just spend too much on AT power, delay T-70 and tier 4.
< That why M42, DhSK or even 120mm mortar has a place to shine !
23 Jun 2021, 01:12 AM
#57
Posts: 307
people like you, vipper seem to be forgot PTRS penals had to stay in green cover to constantly fight with medium tank. Staying on open field or stupid yellow cover 100% helped Axis med tank cut them down very fast. Meanwhile Traditional AT squad could fire 2 salvos and run aways.
Dont forget to crashi your tank into penal when you get sachel. Bite back time is fine.
Dont forget to crashi your tank into penal when you get sachel. Bite back time is fine.
23 Jun 2021, 05:42 AM
#58
Posts: 80
people like you, vipper seem to be forgot PTRS penals had to stay in green cover to constantly fight with medium tank. Staying on open field or stupid yellow cover 100% helped Axis med tank cut them down very fast. Meanwhile Traditional AT squad could fire 2 salvos and run aways.
Dont forget to crashi your tank into penal when you get sachel. Bite back time is fine.
That's not true, try blobbing 3 penals and 1 clowncar early game.
Then build two T70 and blob 3Penals + 3 Penals. Even MG cannot survive it, let alone a raketeen trying to shot 70% miss on T70.
23 Jun 2021, 07:03 AM
#59
Posts: 307
yeah 290 mp x 3 inf squad + clown car early game. How many squad do you have at same time, huh ?
and Again, 2 T70 and 3 + 3 penal, How the fuck you let soviet player doing that ?
and Again, 2 T70 and 3 + 3 penal, How the fuck you let soviet player doing that ?
23 Jun 2021, 07:07 AM
#60
Posts: 1563
Yes.
> back tech T2 take time to build, resouce.
> need another 320mp to build Zis, and yet build time.
> Not to mention you has to fight around that times so bleeding, losing fuel,ammu... is a thing too. Yet going back to T2 means would buy maxim, mortar = more mp spend to another places, delay your tier 4 alot.
< in another hands, Axis could comeback because Sov just spend too much on AT power, delay T-70 and tier 4.
< That why M42, DhSK or even 120mm mortar has a place to shine !
That is one of the most stupidest things I'v heard.
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