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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » The devs did it again... Buffed B4 into the heaven

The devs did it again... Buffed B4 into the heaven

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Klement Pikhtura
20 Jun 2021, 20:30 PM
#101
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jun 2021, 20:57 PMGrumpy


This is your idea of a discussion?

So b4 is not op/should stay op, because LeFH used to be OP in teamgames for years? My dude, where's the logic? If there is one in your opinion, then I agree to disagree.

Also I want to play what I want, or as closely to meta as possible without being bored.

I'm pissed because the reworked B4 is effective beyond 4v4 and 3v3 and, as I've told you before, I hate picking OP crap or be forced to pick a counter to OP crap. Still remember how ISU was top tier in 2v2 and it forced axis to pick Elefants and Jagtigers. Remember picking airborne as SOV and being flamed for not picking ISU or just picking ISU because I wanted to win badly. "fun" times. And no, I don't care about 4v4 balance and have a lot of reasons why. And those reasons include arty spam and heavy tank destroyers.

This is my last reply, because this is going nowhere. I hope I made my position clear.
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theekvn
21 Jun 2021, 02:25 AM
#102
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 307

new B4 OP ? no, it just Lefh vet 1 barrage with 3 shots, more damage. that all.
Is it reliable ?. Sort of, give Sov Counter attack, tank hunter a tool to ground control so players can atcually follow up (for the mother land, hoorah AT nade, IL-2 AT bomb drop etc..etc).
Problem is people's Harbit =)) . Seriously, cursed all of your old stupid playstyles.
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ullumulu
21 Jun 2021, 07:48 AM
#103
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

Its CD is really too fast.
The cost too low.
The commander around it too good. (PTRS cons, steahlt armor, stahlt AT gun, AT-callin, etc)
The counter options for axis too low and too expansive.

Give it longer CD, and axis more options to deal with it.
Not you cant build any thing outside from base sector without getting easily bombed into stone age
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chihuahua_charity
21 Jun 2021, 09:11 AM
#104
avatar of chihuahua_charity

Posts: 21

If only anyone could've predicted that this B-4 change was really stupid...

If only someone could've warned us...
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theekvn
21 Jun 2021, 09:25 AM
#105
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 307

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 09:11 AMchihuahua_charity
If only anyone could've predicted that this B-4 change was really stupid...

If only someone could've warned us...

check youtube, they are some clip about B-4 change. Over all, it is fine. Problem come from Players playstyles
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JohnSmith
21 Jun 2021, 09:38 AM
#106
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

It should not hit base sectors that's what it's needed. Being pinned down in the base is no fun.
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Katitof
21 Jun 2021, 10:17 AM
#107
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 07:48 AMullumulu
Its CD is really too fast.

Much longer then it was pre patch.
The cost too low.

All arty cost the same.
The commander around it too good. (PTRS cons, steahlt armor, stahlt AT gun, AT-callin, etc)

Irrelevant.
The counter options for axis too low and too expansive.

Incorrect.

Not you cant build any thing outside from base sector without getting easily bombed into stone age

Build LEFH and, brace for it, actually use it by targetting it properly instead of old "press button and forget about indirect fire for the rest of the game".
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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redfox
21 Jun 2021, 10:26 AM
#108
avatar of redfox

Posts: 92

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 10:17 AMKatitof

Build LEFH and, brace for it, actually use it by targetting it properly instead of old "press button and forget about indirect fire for the rest of the game".


Jeez, the poor guys, this is unacceptable! Just think, this is actual micro!
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Lady Xenarra
21 Jun 2021, 10:46 AM
#109
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 956

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 10:26 AMredfox


Jeez, the poor guys, this is unacceptable! Just think, this is actual micro!

You may find that the overall lethality has gone up when they use it against your army directly instead of scatters off from targeting light arty, I know I have been using it so.

EDIT: Ran into a triple NSO premade running just B-4s and you could not advance one bit at all without losing squads. Weapons teams, armour, LEFH (vaporised), infantry all destroyed trying to close the distance. Got close once but they were just spamming them out. It's frankly cancerous. I just left rather than try to deal with such unpleasantness after the 6th unit destroyed.
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
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Kurobane
21 Jun 2021, 12:48 PM
#110
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 10:46 AMLady Xenarra

You may find that the overall lethality has gone up when they use it against your army directly instead of scatters off from targeting light arty, I know I have been using it so.

EDIT: Ran into a triple NSO premade running just B-4s and you could not advance one bit at all without losing squads. Weapons teams, armour, LEFH (vaporised), infantry all destroyed trying to close the distance. Got close once but they were just spamming them out. It's frankly cancerous. I just left rather than try to deal with such unpleasantness after the 6th unit destroyed.



Yeah Automatch at the moment is all Soviets spamming B4's. Literally COH 2 version of aids.
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minhuh064
21 Jun 2021, 13:10 PM
#111
avatar of minhuh064

Posts: 63

how about prepare and pick Counter Cmdrs like Allied has to do all the time?
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Lady Xenarra
21 Jun 2021, 13:15 PM
#112
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 956

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 13:10 PMminhuh064
how about prepare and pick Counter Cmdrs like Allied has to do all the time?


Apparently LEFH counters B-4 according to many :rofl:
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
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Support Sapper
21 Jun 2021, 13:53 PM
#113
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Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 13:15 PMLady Xenarra


Apparently LEFH counters B-4 according to many :rofl:


I think some certain Commander have lefh and counter tools in offer. Some others have recon+bomb
My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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the_onion_man
21 Jun 2021, 14:34 PM
#114
avatar of the_onion_man
Patrion 14

Posts: 117

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 13:53 PMSupport Sapper


I think some certain Commander have lefh and counter tools in offer. Some others have recon+bomb


Again, it takes 4-5 minutes (assuming ZERO grenades, mines, etc) of munitions income to counter ONE B4 which can be built every ~2 minutes

And it's only a net loss for Soviets, excluding area denial, if the B4 never hits anything. And even then, it dominates the Axis' attention and demands the total use of all of their munitions resources, meaning nothing is available for grenades or mines and so on.

Also, while normally I would ignore Katitof and advise everyone to do the same, here I'll simply note that balance decisions have routinely been made since the game's release in terms of not putting too many powerful abilities all on the same commander. For obvious reasons.
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Support Sapper
21 Jun 2021, 15:04 PM
#115
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 14:34 PMthe_onion_man


Again, it takes 4-5 minutes (assuming ZERO grenades, mines, etc) of munitions income to counter ONE B4 which can be built every ~2 minutes

And it's only a net loss for Soviets, excluding area denial, if the B4 never hits anything. And even then, it dominates the Axis' attention and demands the total use of all of their munitions resources, meaning nothing is available for grenades or mines and so on.


Isn't it the same for alies when they want to take out a Lefh. Like, the cheapest reliable combo is recon+tot is something like 250muni.

To be clear, im not comment on the power of the B4, but point is the ability to counter it is available in the same manner (if not easier) as alies when come to counter lefh.
My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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Protos Angelus
21 Jun 2021, 15:08 PM
#116
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 14:34 PMthe_onion_man


Again, it takes 4-5 minutes (assuming ZERO grenades, mines, etc) of munitions income to counter ONE B4 which can be built every ~2 minutes

And it's only a net loss for Soviets, excluding area denial, if the B4 never hits anything. And even then, it dominates the Axis' attention and demands the total use of all of their munitions resources, meaning nothing is available for grenades or mines and so on.

Also, while normally I would ignore Katitof and advise everyone to do the same, here I'll simply note that balance decisions have routinely been made since the game's release in terms of not putting too many powerful abilities all on the same commander. For obvious reasons.


Same for allies to counter LeFH. 200+ munitions regularly because ML20/mobile arty won't really counter the LeFH. Might kill the crew at most. So in essence, you're stuck with offmap + recon.
If the enemy is spamming B4s and winning, that means you are not mobile enough and/or you blob a lot so the first shell of B4 is deadly.
Enough whining.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
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DerKuhlmann
21 Jun 2021, 15:21 PM
#117
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 469

Rofl this a allies patch.
You try to counter b4 with lefh and b4 owns your lefh.
AHAHAHAHAHA
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LMAO
21 Jun 2021, 15:26 PM
#118
avatar of LMAO

Posts: 163

Ostheer CAS shits on b4, but wait who uses close air support lol
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Kurobane
21 Jun 2021, 15:39 PM
#119
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Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2021, 13:15 PMLady Xenarra


Apparently LEFH counters B-4 according to many :rofl:


Wouldn't be that bad if they left in Counter Barrage but they removed Counter Barrage while making the B4 1 shot your LEFH.



jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2021, 15:30 PMSander93

The purpose of this patch is to create an as large amount of middle ground (good/viable) commanders as possible to increase commander diversity. Not to create more top meta commanders.



Meanwhile literally every single match is Soviet B4 cancer. Previous patch had more commander diversity than this patch.

Also from a design perspective they should be trying to make each Commander possibly Meta material. If something is considered meta they should bring up other commanders to match that same level of strength. Instead they half ass some commanders to make them "middle ground" intentionally causing commander imbalance and forcing different meta like how they forced the current B4 Meta or the OKW Jaeger Light Infantry meta some time ago.

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redfox
21 Jun 2021, 15:49 PM
#120
avatar of redfox

Posts: 92

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2021, 15:30 PMSander93

The purpose of this patch is to create an as large amount of middle ground (good/viable) commanders as possible to increase commander diversity. Not to create more top meta commanders.


This definitely worked for me. I am suddenly swimming in commanders I can use. Is it Reserve Tactics, allowing for a complete army with Sov T1 including team weapons? Is it Shock Army with T34/85 and Shocks? Is it Tank hunter with B4 and AT bombs for big team games? Sov Industry with Recon and Repair station? It's just beautiful and I'm very happy.
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