Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback

Maybe could try to replace Scavenge commander Ostwind by T34/76 with remove ram ability？
And IRstg maybe could like USF 1919LMG,can upgrade by all infantry but balance by number and cost，like Volks can upgrade single IRstg by 80 ammunition and request T4 ，Fusiller can upgrade 2x with 100 ammunition after T4.

Why on Gods green Earth would anyone nerf Falls. They are weak to any sort of vehicle and are in a doctrine. Leave them as infantry shredders.

Why on Gods green Earth would anyone nerf Falls. They are weak to any sort of vehicle and are in a doctrine. Leave them as infantry shredders.

Exactly. They are the focal point of the Luftwaffe doctrine and they are absolute glass cannons.

I tried writing up a decent little suggestion but it got deleted so I'm gonna tldr this

Panzerfusiliers being made into volks that scale better is a boring and bad idea. There has to be something more interesting that can be done with them. They should either be complementary to Volks or if they are meant to replace them they should at least be unique in doing so (like Assault Grenadiers or Ostruppen from Ostheer). Here's an idea I'll throw out there

-Increase cost to 280 Manpower
-6 Man squad armed with 6 Kar 98s (should probably be a little weaker than the current damage profile they have)
-Population remains the same
-Has an AT Grenade for a snare
-Can upgrade x3 G43s for 70 munitions but requires Schwerer Panzer HQ to be placed
-Cannot upgrade Panzershrecks anymore
-Unable to build sandbags

Main idea is that this makes PzFus strong early game, weak in the mid game due to lack of any upgrades, and then keeps their stronger late game preformance. Compared to volks where they are average early game, strong mid game with STGs, and then fall off late game. Their lacking mid game and inability to build sandbags hopefully keep them unique compared to volks where you have to play different if you commit to them. Or if you mix them makes both units stand out in a more interesting way.

snip

You forgot about AT package.
You can't have dual shreck on cheap 6 man platform.

You forgot about AT package.
You can't have dual shreck on cheap 6 man platform.

They wouldn't have an AT package. Only the G43 that comes with Schwerer. At least that was the idea. I've updated to avoid further confusion

I know the commander is a meme in 1v1 but I'm slightly on edge about the number of improvements the fortification commander for larger game modes.

. Improved for the fatherland
. Field defences and fortification in one ( + buff to flaks)
. Buffed pak 43
. Lefh
. Lower cost for zero artillery.

Again, this could be potentially to potent for team games. Any further improvements will need to be heavily monitored and already may be too much.

Is For the Fatherland going to retain its cost at 50 muni or will it be adjusted?

It seems pretty powerful for a 50 muni ability that is going to last 45 seconds.

But why?
They aren't supposed to be stand alone in late game(this is why obers exist and even became easier to get) and do perfectly fine up until that point.

I wouldn't mind seeing what a pop reduction either in vet or tech looks like. I'm no fan of volks in their current design but I too think they have scaling problems. It's part offset by their stupidly fast peaking but since you can't get rid of em to make room for the units to replace em I think they should scale a bit better as well.

221/223

221 would be more useful as counter to micro light something okw suffer from while 223 has too high fuel cost/pop compared to the trucks

Suggestions:
Redesign the 221 and 223
Make the 221 a counter to allied micro light UC/M3 flamer and Sniper hunter
Increasing penetration and armor but lower DPS and give bonus vs Sniper

Either
move 223 so scavenger with no fuel cost and low pop to work dedicated resources vehicle
or
scarp the resources vehicle and make a commander vehicle with a timed aura giving "network type bonus" to armor

Airborne Assault

The ability is not that great
Suggestions:
Either toned making cheaper and earlier available or add something to make more unique.

For instance:
"hold the line design" CP down 7-8 cost to 120-150 now target a sector and planes arrive similar to hold the line
or
Duration increased and now animatron parachutist similar to the one used in "victory strike" attack the sector.

Assault Artillery

The ability is too strong for a commander with JT
Suggestions:
Replace the artillery with light mortar and lower Price to 120-150 and CP to 7-8
Assault Package

Suggestions:
remove flamer
replace smoke grenade with light smoke grenade available to commandos (received accuracy instead of vision blocker)

Breakthrough Tactics

Suggestions:

Early Warning Systems

Suggestions:
Replace mini map info of trucks with a timed ability, give more sight to setup trucks possibly allow the to fire flare.

Redesign goliaths to be used vs structures instead of squad wiping machines.
Hard cap number of kills while reducing cost and allowing only one to be built at time

Fallschirmjaeger

Suggestions:
Increase entities to 5
lower DPS and number of FG42
Allow 2 firing mode for FG42 assault rifle and high accuracy.
Abilities could be toggle or one could be default the other an ability

Flakpanzer Ostwind

Suggestions:
possibly allow to the unit to fire shot that do less damage but suppress maybe as vet 1 ability

Flammpanzer Hetzer

Suggestions:
increase rear armor
increase base acceleration rotation and lower the vet bonuses.

HEAT Shells

These round also increase AI due to higher damage

Suggestions:
Make passive ability with a simple increase in penetration

Heavy Fortifications + Field Defences (merged)

Suggestions:
Tank traps now provide yellow cover
need more time to built
can be dismntale
are more resistant to ballistic weapons

Infiltration Grenades

Suggestions:

IR STG44

Special OP fit the Operation Greif and should have an infiltration unit

Suggestions:
Replace the upgrade with a 5 entity infiltration unit using ober models (or even using US uniform) armed with 5 elite M1 carbines
Unit can upgrade with toned IR ST44

Jaeger Light Infantry Squad

Suggestions:
Redesign as support unit
Lower pop
Critical kill now a timed ability
Extra accuracy vs snipers

Opel Blitz

Suggestions:
Replace heal with passenger heal
allow to load and transport medic kits/uncrewed support weapons
lower fuel cost

Panzer Commander

Suggestions:
replace the upgrade with toggle that now allow to change form MG to officer that can survey the field.
Replace the barrage by a less powerful mortar barrage or a plane attack

Sector Assault

Suggestions:
Thorough Salvage

Suggestions:

Stuka Smoke Bombs

Suggestions:
Have 2 version of the ability one for luftwaffer commander providing vision and one for the rest with no vision.

This data is wrong and outdated by at least 1 patch

Did those weapon profiles got changed? Then they are still valid.

It SHOULD be updated up to 8/1/21

Breakthrough Doctrine should have a breakthrough vehicles like ST increasing synergy with a toned down Assault artillery and AT PF.

Breakthrough Doctrine

Panzerfusiliers
Breakthrough Tactics
Sturm Offizier
Assault Artillery
Jagdtiger---> SturmTiger

Elite Armor Doctrine should have access to superior AT unit like JT but then a resources vehicles need to move out to a more appropriate commander like Scavenger with a theme of extra resources.

Elite Armor Doctrine

221/223--->Opel Blitz
Emergency Repairs
HEAT Shells (the ability is changed to provide a passive penetration buff)
Panzer Commander
Sturmtiger--->Jagdtiger

Feuersturm Doctrine should have access to an easier to use flamer unit that can take some of burden of SP. In addition the incendiary round should be available even if one goes T2 and should be be able to be used behind shot blocker so a mortar is better solution.

Feuersturm Doctrine

Flammpanzer Hetzer
Assault Package--->Flamer pioneer (5 men K98 squad able to equip flamer and minesweeper)
Incendiary Munitions---> The g43 mortar from Ostheer urban commander with incendiary rounds
Opel Blitz---> Recoup losses or For The Fatherland
Stuka Rocket Barrage

Fortifications Doctrine

Heavy Fortifications + Field Defences (merged)
For The Fatherland
Pak 43
LeFH 18
Zeroing Artillery

Overwatch Doctrine could use a recon vehicles like the 221 as counter to lights and snipers. 223 could become available as "commander aura" vehicles.

Overwatch Doctrine

Jaeger Light Infantry Squad
Early Warning Systems
For The Fatherland--->221 (or 221/223 with 223 as recon/aura vehicle)
LeFH 18
Sector Assault

Grand Offensive Doctrine should not give access to both a "superior" mainline and Commander Tiger to avoid blobbing.
MP-40 VG as separate unit fit both the theme and have limited use reducing the blobing. Panzer commander does not have good synergy since it not available to Tiger.

Grand Offensive Doctrine

Panzerfusiliers--->Assault VG (The upgrade MP-40 VG with light smoke grenades )
Stuka Smoke Bombs
IR STG44
Panzer Commander---> Light artillery barrage (similar to ostheer ability)
Command Tiger

Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine a tribute to COH1 that will also allow to actually build defensive structures something the overburden SP can not really do. Also ostwind more fitting in this commander

Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine

Heavy Fortifications + Field Defences (merged)--->Luftwaffe ground forces (Basically VG engineer able to build 2cm AA, tank traps, wire, repair and equip minesweeper )
Stuka Smoke Bombs
Fallschirmjaeger
Valiant Assault---> merged with toned down Airborne Assault
Airborne Assault--->Ostwind

Scavenge Doctrine a resources vehicle is much better suited for this commander with more synergy with 105 barrage.
One can experiment with Green T-34/76

Scavenge Doctrine

Flakpanzer Ostwind--->green T-34/76 (available to Red banner soviet commander)
Thorough Salvage--->merged with a resources vehicle like 223 or Opel truck or a vehicle that can "shipon" enemy resources
Jaeger Light Infantry Squad
Infiltration Grenades
105mm Howitzer Barrage

Special Operations is commander where an infiltration unit fit the theme best. One could even merge the infiltration grenades to free up an extra slot.

Special Operations

Radio Silence
Infiltration Grenades
IR STG44 --->infiltration obers
Sturm Offizier
Command Panther

(edited to add some of the recommended changes to abilities that come with these commander changes)

Jagdtiger with HEAT Shells and Panzer Commander in the same doctorine?

Vipper, are you wishing for a commander that could almost one-shot most Allies tanks? That's proper OP man. There are only combos of OP abilities stringed together. Love it, it's completely OP!

Jagdtiger with HEAT Shells and Panzer Commander in the same doctorine?

Vipper, are you wishing for a commander that could almost one-shot most Allies tanks? That's proper OP man. There are only combos of OP abilities stringed together. Love it, it's completely OP!

To be fair, in this proposed version of "Elite Armored" it seems that HEAT shells are just a pen-improving passive. In such a case, even if the Jagdtiger got them, it'd really not make any difference to the unit.

(I don't think it can even use Panzer Commanders anyway).

That said: I don't see Elite Armoured as needing either HEAT shells being changed in this way, nor do I see why it needs the Jagdtiger. The current HEAT shells in conjunction with the Panther or Jagdpanzer provide fantastic AT power already, albeit at a munitions premium.

I would like to see the Sturmtiger either changed to be less of a meme, or replaced with something else in the doctrine, but I can't really see the wisdom in giving that commander more AT power than it already has... it's already incredibly heavily geared in that direction as it is.

(Also, unless they're the OSTheer Opel Blitz', I'd rather have the 221/223 than the Fuersturm Blitz, though I would like to see the 221/223 improved/reworked a bit... it's currently not quite what it could/should be)

but G43's are better than stg's

It highly depends on G43s and STGs. I would not call Pgren STG worse then elite G43, they are just different. Probably same could be said about basic G43s and Volk STGs. But if you compare elite G43 with basic STG, then you are probably right.

It highly depends on G43s and STGs. I would not call Pgren STG worse then elite G43, they are just different. Probably same could be said about basic G43s and Volk STGs. But if you compare elite G43 with basic STG, then you are probably right.

The elite G43 does a little less DPS than the Pgren STG at closer ranges, but loses FAR less damage while on the move, while also having significantly improved performance at longer ranges. All things considered, I'd genuinely call the Elite G43 a strict upgrade in most cases. Pgrens are moving an awful lot, after all.

It highly depends on G43s and STGs. I would not call Pgren STG worse then elite G43, they are just different. Probably same could be said about basic G43s and Volk STGs. But if you compare elite G43 with basic STG, then you are probably right.

That depends on your definition of better though. In case of PG's, units that can't win against them at close range still does not with g43 upgrade the same is true for units that beat them at close range. How ever unit that could beat vanilla PG's from long no longer can beat them from long when they have G43. Also G43's are much better at running and gunning. So g43 for PG's are a net win over all. The sam can be said for Stormtroopers. As even Cav rifles can beat them at close range. What changes for them is their Time to kill support weapon.

The elite G43 does a little less DPS than the Pgren STG at closer ranges, but loses FAR less damage while on the move, while also having significantly improved performance at longer ranges. All things considered, I'd genuinely call the Elite G43 a strict upgrade in most cases. Pgrens are moving an awful lot, after all.

I'd say after using them a lot, especially on Jaeger Infantry that has sprint by default, it is not as clear as it seems. So if it is an upgrade, I would not call it a huge one and long range DPS is not that substantial. Also I tried those rifles on Stormtroopers and it just did not work for me for some reason.

I think it's important that it is the public what kind of player you are, i.e. team games or 1v1, whether you play a lot or not. Otherwise one would not recognize the writer's motives. To me, I haven't actively played 1v1 for a good 1 year. But follow the tournaments and often watch 1v1 games in spectator mode, I know the current metas. In my day I was top 100 with all factions. I still play team games with friends from time to time (4v4) so ​​we're around the top 50. In addition, one should express my thanks to the people from the community who update, patch and balance the game. Since they are not paid for it and they sacrifice free time for it, one should not forget that. Hope my English is not too bad

Fortifications
Looks nice. Good old defense doc.

Special Operations
This gives the doctrine a little more early game power.

Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine
With the merging of the Heavy Fortification and Field Defenses, the doctrine gets an additional strengthening. To make it playable, however, you should replace the smoke drop with the ostwind. Because you like to tech up quickly with a paratrooper so that you can spend the other FG 42. This combines wonderfully with the ostwind that you can build in the Panzer Hq. However, so that you still have a recon, you could still fly a reconnaissance aircraft for each front sector in Valiant Assault (same as with Assault) at an extra charge for the Muntion, of course.

Scavenge Doctrine
The Thorough Salvage Ability is completely useless as it is now I would replace it with a 221 or an Opel Blitz (Wehrmacht).

105mm Artillery Barrage
This change was long overdue.

280mm Rocket Barrage
Nice change.

Buildable 20mm Flak Emplacement
This change was long overdue.

Command Panther
Good change.

Command Tiger
Bring in line with other heavy tanks

Early Warning Flare Traps
Nice to see.

Emergency Repairs
Seems logical.

For the Fatherland
Good change makes the skill useful.

Heavy Fortification and Field Defenses
Good change makes 2 more doctrines playable.

Incendiary Munitions for Le.IG
Bring in line with other abilitys.

Jagdtiger
Yeah why not.

King Tiger
Bring in Line with other mounted mgs.

Le.FH 105mm
Looks good.

Pak 43
Yeah why not.

Panzerfusiliers
Looks good.

Radio Silence
The changes look good. But for what you get it could be a bit cheaper.

Sturm Offizier
Yeah why not.

Sturmpioneer Flamethrower
This change was long overdue.

Sturmtiger
This change was long overdue.

Valiant Assault
Look at the Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine.

Zeroing Artillery
Looks nice.

Panzer Commander
The 105 howitzers offmap from the Panzercomander is strong, so strong that the Commander is no longer available on the Tiger. So that you can balance it better and you have the opportunity to spend the commander on all tanks again, you should weaken the barrage to a light infantry gun Barrage (east), the pak player has to react, the pak is decrewed but not destroyed. This gives the Okw player the option to choose between Mg (Inf. Damage) or Panzer commander (better accuracy and more Vet).

Volks MP40
Due to the change in ppsh recruits (high damage output). I would buff the Volks Mp40 a bit so that they are not too weak.

To be fair, in this proposed version of "Elite Armored" it seems that HEAT shells are just a pen-improving passive. In such a case, even if the Jagdtiger got them, it'd really not make any difference to the unit.

(I don't think it can even use Panzer Commanders anyway).

Vipper edited her post to make some things "less" OP. But you're right, Pen bonus on Jagdt is useless...