[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

Please use this thread for all Soviets-specific feedback on the Winter Balance Preview

Scope
In regards to your feedback, please keep the following in mind:
The focus of this patch is: Core Armies, Meta Problems, And Quality of Life Improvements.


SOV patch notes:
Show Spoiler

Here is the link to the steam Preview mod:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2299363388

Ram - just replace it with something different or make it so it does to T34 same thing it does to opponent, no one is going to throw away vetted tank in any other case of absolute desperation and "I don't want that tank anymore" is a terribly bad VET ability.

T3 nerfs - might backfire badly if infantry remains in such a weak state during that time, however I wouldn't mind nerfing T-70 more and making 7th man unlocked there for free/cheaper then it is now.

Penals - they suffer from exact same problems cons did prior to 7th man upgrade, they don't and won't scale into the late game on vet alone. Not a singular direct combat rifle infantry squad does and this change is pretty much "the shoe is too small on the left leg, I wonder if it'll fit on the right one?" thing.
That vet change is a distraction, not fix, as long as overall value remains the same.

Give the 85 something instead of ram... Makes no sense throwing away a vetted premium medium for the same effect as an at-grenade.

Give the 85 something instead of ram... Makes no sense throwing away a vetted premium medium for the same effect as an at-grenade.

The locked behind veterancy change only applies to the 76mm variant.
The T-34/85 still has its regular vet 1 (capture territory) and stock access to ram.

The locked behind veterancy change only applies to the 76mm variant.
The T-34/85 still has its regular vet 1 (capture territory) and stock access to ram.

Just a wildcard here but wouldnt it make more sense to give the 76 the capture ability but no stock ram and leave 85 with ram (full fat version) instead? That way it would be more likely used as intended to suicide a doomed tank (85's being more pricey to throw away). While the lighter tank behaves a bit more like a light on the flanks pushing off squads and capping points?

T70 is fine. Need no nerf. And why the hell you guys soft removing ramming ability ? Quality of Life changes good.

Engies: Good direction.

M3: Good idea

Maxim: Solid change, quite necessary. Small price reduction would be also fair as well I think, but that would probably incentivize cheese strats at lower ranks, so I guess that would not be good side effect.

Penals are a generally a poor combat unit in late game. They need a proper buff to be useful, not a significant nerf to their firepower in exchange for a weaker buff to their survivability, especially considering their vet ability benefits from their increased damage output, not tankiness. Hard to say how impactful will be the T1 economy changes overall, but late game scaling should be tackled differently regardless.

Not sure if ZIS needs another round of nerfs to its ability (is that third in a row?). It has weaker penetration than PAK despite going up against targets with heavier armour, there is no need to further reduce its usefulness. Most player now use the baby AT gun instead, so that's a signal that ZIS is probably not exactly overperforming right now.

M5: Good change.

The T-70 nerfs needs to be accompanied by some firepower boost in the early game. A single flamer Engie can't carry the whole faction on its back for 10 minutes...

SU-76: The proposed changes are irrelevant. SU-76 is being ignored because it sucks as a combat unit, not because it can't self spot at vet 1. The performance doesn't correspond with its high price. Low damage, no turret, barrage nerfed mutliple times. The nerf to T-70 will just incentivize T4 rush and SU-76 would need some serious combat buffs to make one consider using it instead of a T-34, which does everything better for only slightly more fuel and MP.

The ram ability is a poor concept in general. Throwing away your main source of late game anti-infantry is definitely not something you want to do, even less so on a vetted up tank. I'd say remove it altogether from the 85 variant and just give it some actually useful ability instead. Right now it's only being used as cheese or not at all, that's not a good design. The 76 variant can keep it as a weaker desperation option, but not as a vet ability, that's something that should feel actually rewarding.

Katy: Appropriate change.

ISU and SU-85: Pretty irrelevant changes in 1v1, but clear nerfs in team games. Is it really necessary to nerf allies in game modes where they generally struggle in order to make some insignificant adjustments in 1v1?

Regarding Armour pen in general: Bounce RNG for tank hunters/AT guns is one of the worse aspects of the game, especially at competitive level. I'd rather see the overall levels increased and balanced around that, rather than the other way around.

The Zis barage currently does not work in the patch but it is a known issue and Miragefla says he will fix it ASAP.

Just posting for info.

Whatever i don't mention i basically agree/i'm fine with it.

-M3A1: it's a good direction but i think you might as well give Volks faust after building the first truck and then just consider what can be done to the unit to make it good or reduce/remove the fuel cost.

-T3 / T70 / Su76
Why not push some of the cost of the tier towards T4. The only thing that makes the tier scary is the T70 which you are already planning to nerf.

The Su76 for it to be really useful needs to shut down light vehicles in the same way the Puma/AEC does for it's timing. Which compared to those, it has a hard time chasing due to manoeuvrability and lack of turret.

-Ram
Might as well think of giving something else to the T3485.

In case of T76 why not swap abilities for starter (cap) and reduce the penalties incurred in the T76 as well? If ram is getting nerf then don't keep the same crits on the T34 such as immobilize/main gun destroyed. Replace if for engine dmg/turret lock. Roll back the increase in pen (i don't think frontal rams should be encouraged)

Most of the changes are very solid except for a few that I think are quite controversial.
1. Penal changes are irrelevant; with the maximum buff, I will suspect to see them disappear in even more matches.
2. T-34 ram is over nerfed. No one would go for t4 just for an oversize t70. Its AT ability is completely rely on the RAM.
3. T70 nerf is needed, but I worry about soviet mid-game AI performance.
4. Katy needs some changes to improve its team game performance. It is the worst compared to its counterparts in bigger game mode, even though it performs really well in 1v1.
5. Please stop ignoring ml20. The only good thing it has compare to lefh is its direct hit damage.

Love all the sov changes, but I think something more could be done to the ram ability as i'd hate to see it become irrelevant. How about a muni cost (say 50) at vet 0 but free at vet 1? This way if you want to use it in conjunction with other abilities (il2, rockets etc) then the click simply becomes more expensive and will see less frequent use

the T-34-76 and ram would essentially be removed from the game by this patch... either let ram be or give it another ability

suggest APCR rounds for the T-34-76

the T-70 nerf is quite dangerous considering that the soviets still don't have a working machinegun and penals still not scaling lategame and conscripts being a wet noodle till T3... imagine having to pay 15 munitions to do what other factions can do for free without abilities...

recommend sustained fire become free while penals get a mutually exclusive AI weapon upgrade (maybe DPs?) and 7 man coming earlier...


lastly molotov/AT nade was still never addressed... when will this be fixed exactly?

Really? Ram, for the 1st veterancy? This is the most ingenious move. Just remove the Ram, stop kicking the dead horse. Killing units, saving the tank, and then taking and smashing it in guaranteed suicide is great.

Wtf with T34 ram？
su76 vet increase damage to 160 OK？

Lol @ people who think locking ram behind vet 1 makes it shitty, ill always trade a t34 for elephant or tiger with the uber strafe. Really thats what should have been nerfed though while leaving rams as it was IMO

Lol @ people who think locking ram behind vet 1 makes it shitty, ill always trade a t34 for elephant or tiger with the uber strafe. Really thats what should have been nerfed though while leaving rams as it was IMO

lol at orange pest whose hating on the soviets as always...

No buffs to PPSH conscripts? They're so weak and could do with some love.

If you want to make Penal troops scale into the lategame, give them a grenade unlock at vet3. Reducing their DPS just gives the enemy more time to throw a grenade and win the fight.

No buffs to PPSH conscripts? They're so weak and could do with some love.

Hopefully in the next patch that focusses on commander abilities.

Hopefully in the next patch that focusses on commander abilities.

Yeah because I think until PPSH are buffed, half of the Soviet Commanders are too weak compared to meta stuff.