I am under NO illusions this commander-or perhaps any new commander- will be added to the game, but its fun to play around with ideas sometimes.
USF Elite Officer Corps
Excellent training will let your officers seize the early game initiative. As enemy resistance stiffens, use morale(buzzword) boosting abilities to keep up the offensive. We can't let the Germans retake any ground, if the situation looks desperate, rapid response armor reserves are ready to be deployed on your command.
0CP Officer Training 50-75munitions each, consumes a weapon slot
The LT, CPT and Major all receive munitions upgrades. The LT gets a 6 man upgrade that also grants sprint, the CPT gets an upgrade that grants the PANZERGRENADIER mark target and a the sturmpioneer medkit drop, the Major gets a 4 man upgrade that gives him the ability to call in a single SHORT(2 passes with a single aircraft) p47 rocket loiter, but must remain stationary for the duration(similar to major recon).
1CP Veteran Sergeant 100MP
A SINGLE rifle squad may be designated to receive a sergeant. This will increase the squad size to 6, unlock sprint, unlock Rifle smoke grenades, and grant +5 sight.
4CP Combined Arms
You know what this is. Its a good ability, use it, love it.
4CP Cover to Cover
You know what this is. Use it to lead your officers to victory.
12CP Rapid Response Armor 320mp 125fu
When your victory points drop below 200, you may call in a rapid response E8 Sherman for 320mp and 125fu. This ability may be used up to three times, no more.
Currently the E8 doesn't see much play as the Jackson and stock sherman combination make it superfluous. But, by turning it into a comeback mechanic and making it extremely cost effective-albeit with limited uses- it could actually be worth getting over a standard sherman or jackson situation dependent.
Just a bit of fun.
USF Commander idea
22 Aug 2020, 12:57 PM
#1
Posts: 783
22 Aug 2020, 15:30 PM
#2
Posts: 149
I am under NO illusions this commander-or perhaps any new commander- will be added to the game, but its fun to play around with ideas sometimes.
USF Elite Officer Corps
Excellent training will let your officers seize the early game initiative. As enemy resistance stiffens, use morale(buzzword) boosting abilities to keep up the offensive. We can't let the Germans retake any ground, if the situation looks desperate, rapid response armor reserves are ready to be deployed on your command.
0CP Officer Training
The LT, CPT and Major all receive munitions upgrades. The LT gets a 6 man upgrade that also grants sprint, the CPT gets an upgrade that grants the PANZERGRENADIER mark target and a the sturmpioneer medkit drop, the Major gets a 4 man upgrade that gives him the ability to call in a single SHORT(2 passes with a single aircraft) p47 rocket loiter, but must remain stationary for the duration(similar to major recon).
(USF is the only faction that gets a free unit when they tech up.)
1CP Veteran Sergeant 100MP
A SINGLE rifle squad may be designated to receive a sergeant. This will increase the squad size to 6, unlock sprint, unlock Rifle smoke grenades, and grant +5 sight.
(WAY Too OP. A six man squad with M1 Garands, BAR and a Zook? With smoke grenades and sprint and sight? There's literally nothing OST or OKW has to counter that. Obers couldn't even live to survive against something like that vetted. Not too mention what would happen if they went double BAR.)
4CP Combined Arms
You know what this is. Its a good ability, use it, love it.
4CP Cover to Cover
You know what this is. Use it to lead your officers to victory.
12CP Rapid Response Armor 320mp 125fu
When your victory points drop below 200, you may call in a rapid response E8 Sherman for 320mp and 125fu. This ability may be used up to three times, no more.
Currently the E8 doesn't see much play as the Jackson and stock sherman combination make it superfluous. But, by turning it into a comeback mechanic and making it extremely cost effective-albeit with limited uses- it could actually be worth getting over a standard sherman or jackson situation dependent.
(So in a close game that goes below 200 mp, you propose that USF instantly calls in armor that can roflstomp P4's alongside Jacksons with no fuel penalty to call them in?)
Just a bit of fun.
(Fun for you. Meanwhile my hair is turning grey at the thought of Bar/Zook 6 man Rifles with Grenades, AT grenades, Smoke, Vision and Sprint. Its like some rich guy walking into McDonalds when he wants to order from the menu and says, "Lol yeah, I'll have ALL the menu.")
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22 Aug 2020, 16:05 PM
#3
Posts: 783
...
I'll address your points one at a time.
"(USF is the only faction that gets a free unit when they tech up.)"
I dont get your point. UKF is the only faction that gets free howitzers when they tech up. Okw is the only faction that gets an anti infantry turret when it techs up.
"(WAY Too OP. A six man squad with M1 Garands, BAR and a Zook? With smoke grenades and sprint and sight? There's literally nothing OST or OKW has to counter that. Obers couldn't even live to survive against something like that vetted. Not too mention what would happen if they went double BAR.)"
As compared to a 6 man squad that isn't limited to one on the field, has 3 g43s, long sight range, vet sprint, flares and a long range AT grenade without needing vet?
Look adding a rear echelon model or a pistol wielding officer model wouldnt be a gamebreaker and rifles already have doctrinal sprint. Sure the smoke is something that got removed from them but that was because people would run 3-4 rifle squads and just spam it. I'm only proposing upgrading a single command squad like the command vehicle upgrade for brits. The only difference is that instead of providing aoe buffs, it just improves the combat capability of the unit designated.
"(So in a close game that goes below 200 mp, you propose that USF instantly calls in armor that can roflstomp P4's alongside Jacksons with no fuel penalty to call them in?)"
What i am proposing is very similar to heavy tank callins. A late game hail mary. The difference is that E8s aren't really a unit you can bank on in the same way that you can bank on a heavy tank to do the lifting. Also no heavy tanks have a limited number of callins-not anymore.
Basically you are saving 70mp and 15 fuel(normal E8 is 390mp 140fuel) in exchange for not being able to call these tanks in until the 30 minute mark despite the fact that if you paid full price with rifle doctrine, you could have them at less then 15 minutes.
"(Fun for you. Meanwhile my hair is turning grey at the thought of Bar/Zook 6 man Rifles with Grenades, AT grenades, Smoke, Vision and Sprint. Its like some rich guy walking into McDonalds when he wants to order from the menu and says, "Lol yeah, I'll have ALL the menu.")"
I am not suggesting all rifles get a 6 man upgrade. I am suggesting a command squaf ability.
22 Aug 2020, 16:21 PM
#4
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
So at minute 5, a 222, 3 grens and an mg42 have to fight off a stuart, a BAR LT with sprint, a BAR Cpt with mark target, 1 BAR rifle and a 6man Rifle with sprint.
Extremely balanced.
Extremely balanced.
22 Aug 2020, 16:36 PM
#5
Posts: 1515
Just lock the thread. Nothing constructive can come out of a poor commander and trying to reason. USF needs commander versatility since it currently has none but not in such a way.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
22 Aug 2020, 17:05 PM
#6
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Why cover to cover when you have three 6 man squad with sprint and smoke ? I mean, it can be another thing.
About 6 man upgrade, i dont thing touching the officer will be a good idea. Its too messed up. If anything, i prefer giving rifle squad an upgrade to add a model with echelon carbine and take up all slot. It can come with some sight range and RA bonus but thats about it.
About 6 man upgrade, i dont thing touching the officer will be a good idea. Its too messed up. If anything, i prefer giving rifle squad an upgrade to add a model with echelon carbine and take up all slot. It can come with some sight range and RA bonus but thats about it.
22 Aug 2020, 17:27 PM
#7
Posts: 149
Snip
First off, OKW gets a stationary gun, which destroyed, will require to to retruck and rebuild. That's why me personally, unless I absolutely know I can get away with it, Panzer HQ stays in Flak Gun city.
And you're comparing that to getting three free mobile units that can build stuff faster, access to zooks, 1919, and call in artillery strikes.
Fuzilers are locked behind doctrine, cost 80mp to get to six man, locks out schrecks. Whereas a vetted BAR/Zook combo Rifleman is not locked behind ANYTHING except no brainer tech. At this point, because Volks can't thrive in the late game, Fusilers are the only OKW unit that can be a mainline and do well in the late game.
Do you know how easy it would be to cheese that Rapid Armor? You talk about a hail mary, but you can build THREE tanks before it would be locked out. This doesn't stop you from building more tanks either. Jagdpanzer has hard enough time creating space for a shot against a Sherman without the inevitable rage inducing circle strafe nonsense.
Heavy tanks are no longer locked to one, but they STILL have heavy popcap, and STILL are fuel heavy at 240+, by their very nature, you build one and your field presence is reduced because you have 22 or so popcap in ONE unit. Often I'll opt for Pwerfer/Stuka + Panzer IV over a Tiger just to keep my flexibility.
| Playercard of Sp33dSnake | |||||||||||||||||||
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22 Aug 2020, 17:28 PM
#8
Posts: 149
So at minute 5, a 222, 3 grens and an mg42 have to fight off a stuart, a BAR LT with sprint, a BAR Cpt with mark target, 1 BAR rifle and a 6man Rifle with sprint.
Extremely balanced.
xD
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22 Aug 2020, 17:30 PM
#9
Posts: 3053
Lol imagine thinking BAR and zook is the way to go on rifle squads. No.
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22 Aug 2020, 17:32 PM
#10
Posts: 149
Lol imagine thinking BAR and zook is the way to go on rifle squads. No.
Seen it and it works. Especially against light vehicles.
You charge up, seeing an infantry with a BAR icon, thinking your Luchs/222 can push it off, but then the zook fires and you are
And they are not bad against mainline infantry either. That one zook doesn't seem to hurt their firepower all that much.
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22 Aug 2020, 17:44 PM
#11
Posts: 3053
Seen it and it works. Especially against light vehicles.
You charge up, seeing an infantry with a BAR icon, thinking your Luchs/222 can push it off, but then the zook fires and you are
And they are not bad against mainline infantry either. That one zook doesn't seem to hurt their firepower all that much.
Nope. Not worth it at all, you'll never see that at high level play. It's a noobtrap. Losing one garand doesn't hurt anti infantry much, but not being able to put double BARs on rifles is a big no.
And one zook isn't even a really effective deterrent for anything but a kubel. You can take like 4 zook hits in a luchs before you have to back off, and you shouldn't even be in zook range to begin with.
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22 Aug 2020, 17:59 PM
#12
Posts: 149
Nope. Not worth it at all, you'll never see that at high level play. It's a noobtrap. Losing one garand doesn't hurt anti infantry much, but not being able to put double BARs on rifles is a big no.
And one zook isn't even a really effective deterrent for anything but a kubel. You can take like 4 zook hits in a luchs before you have to back off, and you shouldn't even be in zook range to begin with.
Yeah because vetted riflement don't have an AT grenade.
And two riflemen set up the same way have the equivalent of double zooks and double bars.
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22 Aug 2020, 18:35 PM
#13
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
1 BAR 1 Zook rifles new meta PogChamp
22 Aug 2020, 19:53 PM
#14
Posts: 3053
Yeah because vetted riflement don't have an AT grenade.
And two riflemen set up the same way have the equivalent of double zooks and double bars.
Yeah but you never put zooks on rifles. You want a zook squad, you use REs. Trust me, there's a reason people don't do that at high level. Or even mediocre level.
1 BAR 1 Zook rifles new meta PogChamp
Pls.
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24 Aug 2020, 00:37 AM
#15
Posts: 1515
Seen it and it works. Especially against light vehicles.
You charge up, seeing an infantry with a BAR icon, thinking your Luchs/222 can push it off, but then the zook fires and you are
And they are not bad against mainline infantry either. That one zook doesn't seem to hurt their firepower all that much.
I have to correct you on this account. This whole thread is nonsense and I agree with most of what you have said... However, giving rifles one zook and one bar is...bad. It can work in 1v1 maybe but in larger gamemodes which mostly play out in "lanes"... a big NO
3 VPs, 3v3 = 3 lanes. So you have a 3v3/4v4 map that is a bit larger than a 1v1 map but fits 6/8 more players. This forces you to go to your closest points/muni/fuel and VP, which pretty much means that you will have a large force of infantry which you will need to control and focus targets, on a smaller "map" (lane)
In such game modes, you will want to know which is AI only squad and direct them to hit infantry only, and which are AT only squads. If you combine it, you'll have a really really bad time. Only time it can really work is in small game mode and early on when there are no obers or pzgrens and such and the AI power lost from one zook is not detrimental.
Eg. I bind BAR rifles to 1, ranger zook + echelon zook to 2, tanks to 3 (Sherman,Pershing...) and 4 (Jackson, M10...), Pak/Scott to 5 and AA HT to 6 and ambulance to 7.
You would induce much more micro and lose a lot of fights if you combine in larger game modes, especially late game. You want to target down squads one by one rather than attack ground and combining is not the way to do so.
Trust me, two rifleman set up the same way are not the same since the speed of taking down enemy models results in you either winning an engagement or retreating.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
24 Aug 2020, 00:38 AM
#16
Posts: 1515
I have to correct you on this account. This whole thread is nonsense and I agree with most of what you have said... However, giving rifles one zook and one bar is...bad. It can work in 1v1 maybe but in larger gamemodes which mostly play out in "lanes"... a big NO
3 VPs, 3v3 = 3 lanes. So you have a 3v3/4v4 map that is a bit larger than a 1v1 map but fits 6/8 more players. This forces you to go to your closest points/muni/fuel and VP, which pretty much means that you will have a large force of infantry which you will need to control and focus targets, on a smaller "map" (lane).
In such game modes, you will want to know which is AI only squad and direct them to hit infantry only, and which are AT only squads. If you combine it, you'll have a really really bad time. Only time it can really work is in small game mode and early on when there are no obers or pzgrens and such and the AI power lost from one zook is not detrimental.
Eg. I bind BAR rifles to 1, ranger zook + echelon zook to 2, tanks to 3 (Sherman,Pershing...) and 4 (Jackson, M10...), Pak/Scott to 5 and AA HT to 6 and ambulance to 7.
You would induce much more micro and lose a lot of fights if you combine in larger game modes, especially late game. You want to target down squads one by one rather than attack ground and combining is not the way to do so.
Trust me, two rifleman set up the same way are not the same since the speed of taking down enemy models results in you either winning an engagement or retreating.
Delete this post plz. Replied instead of an edit.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
24 Aug 2020, 12:22 PM
#17
Posts: 783
So at minute 5, a 222, 3 grens and an mg42 have to fight off a stuart, a BAR LT with sprint, a BAR Cpt with mark target, 1 BAR rifle and a 6man Rifle with sprint.
Extremely balanced.
xD
Let me see if I understand correctly. The total resource cost of all this(two officers, two rifles, rifle squad upgrade+reinforce cost, weapon rack, LT side tech, officer upgrades[say 50mu a piece, possibly 75?] and stuart) including proposed additions is 1658mp 280mu and 175fuel minus the 400mp/20fuel you start with. And this is attainable at the 5 minute mark? How?
Why cover to cover when you have three 6 man squad with sprint and smoke ? I mean, it can be another thing.
Well you only have two 6 man squads with sprint, but I do agree cover to cover is somewhat redundant.
And you're comparing that to getting three free mobile units that can build stuff faster, access to zooks, 1919, and call in artillery strikes.
Fuzilers are locked behind doctrine, cost 80mp to get to six man, locks out schrecks. Whereas a vetted BAR/Zook combo Rifleman is not locked behind ANYTHING except no brainer tech. At this point, because Volks can't thrive in the late game, Fusilers are the only OKW unit that can be a mainline and do well in the late game.
Do you know how easy it would be to cheese that Rapid Armor? You talk about a hail mary, but you can build THREE tanks before it would be locked out. This doesn't stop you from building more tanks either. Jagdpanzer has hard enough time creating space for a shot against a Sherman without the inevitable rage inducing circle strafe nonsense.
Heavy tanks are no longer locked to one, but they STILL have heavy popcap, and STILL are fuel heavy at 240+, by their very nature, you build one and your field presence is reduced because you have 22 or so popcap in ONE unit. Often I'll opt for Pwerfer/Stuka + Panzer IV over a Tiger just to keep my flexibility.
I was not comparing them. I was expressing I don't understand why you made the point of USF getting free stuff when all factions get free stuff.
Fusiliers are locked behind 2 doctrines, guess what? These officer upgrades would be locked behind a doctrine too!
It would not be easy to cheese that rapid armor, because it doesn't come out rapidly. It would rely on you LOSING 300 vp before even getting a chance to call them in. If you can manage to do that in the first 20 mins. If the USF player can manage to do that, then there are other issues he has to sort out. If you are at the 30 minute mark and you've been doing a good job maintaining veterancy on your tanks, then you wouldn't even bother getting an E8, and at that point you should be swimming in fuel anyway so what does 15 fuel cost reduction matter?
Yeah heavy tanks have more popcap and cost more fuel, because they are more powerful, or are you implying the E8 is a match for the Tiger?
24 Aug 2020, 12:33 PM
#18
Posts: 783
...
I suppose I should clarify why these abilities are powerful, but not as strong as some here seem to think. Specifically the officer/rifle upgrade.
You can upgrade a SINGLE rifle squad with a 6 man upgrade for 100mp. In terms of firepower, this makes them slightly weaker then a penal squad at mid and long ranges and about 20% stronger at close range. But you also have to reinforce the squad for 28mp, so you are paying 408mp for a penal squad with sprint. Smoke would be added similar to how smoke gets added only if you buy the grenade upgrade at the HQ, so that wouldn't be available right away.
TLDR: You are paying 408mp for a penal squad with better scaling and 20% better close range dps and you only get one of these.
Officers-
Lieutenant is the same concept, except you would pay munitions instead of MP similar to the 5 man gren upgrade.
The captain mark target would be identical to the Pgren version which is that a target unit takes 30% increased RA, but the Pgren ALSO takes 15% increased RA making it a double edged sword. Big difference is that you can get more than one pgren with this.
That said, having the upgrades take up weapon slots wouldn't be unreasonable so i'll edit that in.
Cover to cover was a meh ability that fit the theme of the doctrine but it is indeed redundant.
The E8 callins would be basically available only in the very very late game after heavy tanks have already hit the field. Having a 15 fuel cost reduction on E8s arriving at the 30 minute mark I don't feel to be all that overpowered.
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