how does okw deal with the mg and sniper?
in 4v4 the okw is the shit
Never played USF I see.
give the okw a sniper
22 Aug 2020, 04:34 AM
#41
Posts: 888
Never played USF I see.
22 Aug 2020, 05:25 AM
#42
Posts: 52
None says usf has easy time dealing with sniper, but at least they have a fast M20 (non-doc) and t0 mortar to obscure sniper's range. USF also has a fast free infantry squad (officer) that's big pressure on a sniper build.
Never played USF I see.
Dealing with mgs as USF is quite easy, USF has so much access to smoke that makes every djinn entrance look like opening a coke
22 Aug 2020, 06:52 AM
#43
Posts: 149
Honestly they don't need it. You have a ISG to smoke/barrage, Volks with flamenade, and Obers with nuke nade.
As well as a Luchs/Puma. And an IR Halftrack for spotting.
A sniper is unnecessary.
As well as a Luchs/Puma. And an IR Halftrack for spotting.
A sniper is unnecessary.
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22 Aug 2020, 07:00 AM
#44
Posts: 149
On offtopic I disagree with that
OKW is not agressive but rather evasive, they are all about ambushing with STpios and delaying the opponent, because in a 1v1 matchup volks can effectively fight only Conscripts.
OST is defensive
USF is offensive
Soviets can chose, but closer to offensive anyway
UKF is something in between
Well depending on their build, when they throw sniper after they got enouth mainline inf its hard, but by that time you can get somesort of the counters. Like JLI for excample.
If they build snipers in early game, then I find its easy in 3v3 to just suicide rush it with kubel when opportunity allows. Because even if kubel dies, you still will win in a MP bleed anyway.
The original OKW meta was "Dive deep, hope it sticks, use your mobility and advanced weaponry."
Now it's more of a combined-arms stall faction. Be elusive, engage in unfair fights, and preserve your units until late game armor comes in to establish dominance on the field.
Honestly I wish Obers timing could be on first building built, and MG/STG unlock upon Panzer HQ built. I still think they come a bit late, and when they do, they have to fight for their lives against vetted mainline infantry because they come so late.
I wish something could be done to help Volks be less squishy during the late game. One thing I suggested is having a doctrine similar to Soviet airborne where instead of SVT's, you can drop G43's for your infantry.
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22 Aug 2020, 07:59 AM
#45
Posts: 518
And an IR Halftrack for spotting.
Apart from that:
I agree that OKW doesn't need a sniper ( not like it would get implemented anyways ), but I also want to point out that some of the methods suggested to counter snipers as OKW don't work. For instance the Kubel one only works when the enemy is pretty much AFK.
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
22 Aug 2020, 10:30 AM
#46
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Honestly I wish Obers timing could be on first building built, and MG/STG unlock upon Panzer HQ built. I still think they come a bit late, and when they do, they have to fight for their lives against vetted mainline infantry because they come so late.
Would be a bit OP if you ask me, considering they perform somewhat like vet3 grens strate of the bat and being able to have them rather quickly if you go for med HQ.
Its more like Schwerer HQ could have been cheaper to build, while cost difference transfered to its upgrade. In this case you would be able to just afford them ealier, without changing how faction works. But I agree, that by the time obersts arive its pretty much pointless to use them without LMG, which is a shame.
I wish something could be done to help Volks be less squishy during the late game. One thing I suggested is having a doctrine similar to Soviet airborne where instead of SVT's, you can drop G43's for your infantry.
Vet5 STG volks are good for late game, they can stand more or less ground vs vetted uped inf somewhat, problem is all their power comes from vet and if you lose vetted volks there is pretty much no replacement aside from obersts\doc inf, since its already takes almost full game to vet them up.
Other mainline inf at least have powerfull upgrades (like 7 men cons) or weapons upgrades to make even un-vetted new squad somewhat usefull.
22 Aug 2020, 12:15 PM
#47
Posts: 783
Vet5 STG volks are good for late game, they can stand more or less ground vs vetted uped inf somewhat, problem is all their power comes from vet and if you lose vetted volks there is pretty much no replacement aside from obersts\doc inf, since its already takes almost full game to vet them up.
Other mainline inf at least have powerfull upgrades (like 7 men cons) or weapons upgrades to make even un-vetted new squad somewhat usefull.
For combat stats only, volks with max veterency get
-24% recieved accuracy
+30% weapon accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
For comparison rifles get
-38% recieved accuracy
+30% accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
Ostruppen get
-28.5% recieved accuracy
+40% accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
Conscripts get
-37.3% recieved accuracy
+50% accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
The only mainline infantry that gets worse combat bonuses is the infantry sections who get less recieved accuracy reduction and less accuracy-but make up for it by having the lowest stock recieved accuracy of any mainline in the game by a fair margin.
My point is that volks vet really isn't that good. The passive healing is great and imo it wouldn't hurt to put it back to vet 3 but other then that, they just don't scale as well as pretty much any other mainline.
I am not saying they should be buffed, but they are definitely on the weak end of mainlines.
22 Aug 2020, 12:34 PM
#48
Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1
play coh1 if you love snipers so much
22 Aug 2020, 14:14 PM
#49
Posts: 5279
For combat stats only, volks with max veterency get
-24% recieved accuracy
+30% weapon accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
For comparison rifles get
-38% recieved accuracy
+30% accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
Ostruppen get
-28.5% recieved accuracy
+40% accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
Conscripts get
-37.3% recieved accuracy
+50% accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
The only mainline infantry that gets worse combat bonuses is the infantry sections who get less recieved accuracy reduction and less accuracy-but make up for it by having the lowest stock recieved accuracy of any mainline in the game by a fair margin.
My point is that volks vet really isn't that good. The passive healing is great and imo it wouldn't hurt to put it back to vet 3 but other then that, they just don't scale as well as pretty much any other mainline.
I am not saying they should be buffed, but they are definitely on the weak end of mainlines.
Volks had their vet gutted pretty hard when they had shreks that let them vet up pretty much instantly. I can get behind a vet buff for them, including returning their self heal at vet 3 since it's earned now.
Between vet and perhaps more "truck related" buffs to help them scale without all the weight on vet I think volks could be a bit more interesting
Its no secret I don't like volks current design, but incorporateing their scaling with the unique okw teching could make them more dynamic and interesting than "rifles but worse and instead of side techs they just get everything when you build your first tech"
#stalinwept
22 Aug 2020, 15:11 PM
#50
Posts: 149
Would be a bit OP if you ask me, considering they perform somewhat like vet3 grens strate of the bat and being able to have them rather quickly if you go for med HQ.
Its more like Schwerer HQ could have been cheaper to build, while cost difference transfered to its upgrade. In this case you would be able to just afford them ealier, without changing how faction works. But I agree, that by the time obersts arive its pretty much pointless to use them without LMG, which is a shame.
Vet5 STG volks are good for late game, they can stand more or less ground vs vetted uped inf somewhat, problem is all their power comes from vet and if you lose vetted volks there is pretty much no replacement aside from obersts\doc inf, since its already takes almost full game to vet them up.
Other mainline inf at least have powerful upgrades (like 7 men cons) or weapons upgrades to make even un-vetted new squad somewhat usefull.
With Panzerfusilers being better in almost every way, with AT AND AI grenade, with the option to go G43's or Schreks, and only cost 10 more manpower, the only reason to chose Volks is the flame nade or doctrinal abilities like bunkers and mines.
Fuzilers in the late game give Allies plenty of trouble. I still think they are more useful than Obers because of timing and versitility; they only drawback is they are locked behind doctrine.
Vet 5 Volks are still squishy for what they are.
In a distant way, its similar to what was happening with Soviets. Conscripts were simply not good enough before 7 man and SVT's, so many guys went with Penals.
You see a lot more conscript builds post patch. As well you should.
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22 Aug 2020, 16:37 PM
#51
Posts: 38
the allied MGs that come at minute zero are both garbage at suppression
People keep saying that, but that's not what I'm seeing. They may be not be the best MGs in the game, but they still do a very decent job, especially in the early game when there isn't yellow cover everywhere. They are definitely _not_ "garbage".
so you can pretty much just walk up to them and flamenade so there's your counter.
That is most definitely not the case.
22 Aug 2020, 18:02 PM
#52
Posts: 1289
People keep saying that, but that's not what I'm seeing. They may be not be the best MGs in the game, but they still do a very decent job, especially in the early game when there isn't yellow cover everywhere. They are definitely _not_ "garbage".
That is most definitely not the case.
You do have the biggest chance vs the maxim and the vickers to frontaly nade them. Its is no true in every engagement, but it does happen iften enough.
22 Aug 2020, 20:01 PM
#53
Posts: 177
Tbh it would be refreshing to see some a 3CP sniper for OKW and USF attached to otherwise really shitty commander with pseudo buffs on april 1st.
22 Aug 2020, 20:03 PM
#54
Posts: 3053
People keep saying that, but that's not what I'm seeing. They may be not be the best MGs in the game, but they still do a very decent job, especially in the early game when there isn't yellow cover everywhere. They are definitely _not_ "garbage".
That is most definitely not the case.
Use two squads and spread them out slightly and you can frontally nade them every time. I do it all the time. Vickers and maxim aren't mg42 or 34 in terms of suppression, it's very doable even in the early game.
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23 Aug 2020, 01:09 AM
#55
Posts: 38
You do have the biggest chance vs the maxim and the vickers to frontaly nade them. Its is no true in every engagement, but it does happen iften enough.
At this point somebody would have to test it in cheat mod. Sadly, I don't have it, and neither do I have the time to do proper testing myself. But until I see proof to the contrary, I will believe that only re-crewed Vet0-MGs in the late-game yellow cover landscape struggle to suppress frontally assaulting squads.
23 Aug 2020, 01:18 AM
#56
Posts: 38
Use two squads and spread them out slightly and you can frontally nade them every time. I do it all the time. Vickers and maxim aren't mg42 or 34 in terms of suppression, it's very doable even in the early game.
The area of suppression isn't that small even for the Maxim. Also, the MG controller can manually change targets. So you would have to spread out the assaulting squads fairly wide, and at this point it's flanking. And if we're talking about flanking, the MG 34/42 with their slow gun traverse can be countered just as easily.
Also, if the attacking side has two squads, so should the defending side. What if the defending side has two MGs? Or one MG and one inf squad shooting at one of the out-of-cover and moving attacking squads?
It's all not as easy and one-sided as you make it seem.
23 Aug 2020, 03:57 AM
#57
Posts: 3053
The area of suppression isn't that small even for the Maxim. Also, the MG controller can manually change targets. So you would have to spread out the assaulting squads fairly wide, and at this point it's flanking. And if we're talking about flanking, the MG 34/42 with their slow gun traverse can be countered just as easily.
Also, if the attacking side has two squads, so should the defending side. What if the defending side has two MGs? Or one MG and one inf squad shooting at one of the out-of-cover and moving attacking squads?
It's all not as easy and one-sided as you make it seem.
Like 10-15m spread is easily enough to not trigger group suppression. The vickers and maxim literally have like the exact same traverse but with worse suppression so yeah.
I'm not making a balance statement, it's just a fact that it's pretty easy to frontally nade the vickers and maxim, just like it's pretty easy to just ignore an MG34 if you're in cover because it does next to no damage. I'm not trying to make it "one-sided", I'm just saying that flamenades are an adequate counter to the two min0 allied MGs because their suppression is not enough to keep them from being flamenaded.
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23 Aug 2020, 05:02 AM
#58
Posts: 38
Like 10-15m spread is easily enough to not trigger group suppression.
In that case the MG operator can easily manually switch targets. Also, per my last post, if the attacker has two squads, so should the defender. Only that would be a robust basis for a scenario.
The vickers and maxim literally have like the exact same traverse but with worse suppression so yeah.
True. All I'm saying is that this worse suppression is still good enough to suppress frontally charging squads, especially in the early game when there still is lots of neutral cover.
I'm not making a balance statement, it's just a fact that it's pretty easy to frontally nade the vickers and maxim
I haven't seen a lot of this fact in action (at least not in the early game, when OKW doesn't have any other counter).
I'm just saying that flamenades are an adequate counter to the two min0 allied MGs because their suppression is not enough to keep them from being flamenaded.
I doubt the validity of this assertion, but I am open to evidence.
23 Aug 2020, 05:37 AM
#59
Posts: 143
Sadly, I deleted my videofiles recording the "bad" suppression from vickers. I wanted to make a compilation but uninstalled Magix.
I´ve seen it so often that Volks get supressed already at max range that calling it bad can´t be a serious argument.
But sure,
someone get it done on cheatmod and we will see. Frontally charging a vickers is absolutely stupid
I´ve seen it so often that Volks get supressed already at max range that calling it bad can´t be a serious argument.
But sure,
someone get it done on cheatmod and we will see. Frontally charging a vickers is absolutely stupid
23 Aug 2020, 09:13 AM
#60
Posts: 1289
In that case the MG operator can easily manually switch targets. Also, per my last post, if the attacker has two squads, so should the defender. Only that would be a robust basis for a scenario.
True. All I'm saying is that this worse suppression is still good enough to suppress frontally charging squads, especially in the early game when there still is lots of neutral cover.
I haven't seen a lot of this fact in action (at least not in the early game, when OKW doesn't have any other counter).
I doubt the validity of this assertion, but I am open to evidence.
The burst length and rof of the mg42 is better. As far as i know. Suppression is aplied per round. Per rounds maxims supression is higher but its low rof puts it behind the mg42 in terms of supression.
The mg42 fires faster and in shorter bursts. The maxim fires slower and longer bursts. The vickers has the worst supression but fires faster then a maxim and has shorter bursts then a maxim.
And the aoe suprression of the mg42 is about a third bigger then the maxim and vickers.
I dont have video but the stats show that the maxim and vickers are worse off in supressing.
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