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16 May 2020, 09:39 AM
#21
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282


For example: all small arm fire ignore cover under 10 range. Against explosives, it still applies.


So under 10 range, green cover or no cover is the same? But Red cover still applies a debuff?

And trenches are garrison with green cover, do they behave like houses? Same question with bunkers
16 May 2020, 09:59 AM
#22
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



So under 10 range, green cover or no cover is the same? But Red cover still applies a debuff?

And trenches are garrison with green cover, do they behave like houses? Same question with bunkers

Accuracy bonus of cover is ignored under 10 range, accuracy penalty of red cover always applies(why wouldn't it?).
Dmg modifiers still apply.
Garrison cover is unique cover and it always keeps its accuracy bonus regardless of range, but its weaker then green cover.

I don't think there is a difference between actual garrison cover and buildable garrisonable structures, but trenches do seem kind of unique and weaker, tho it might be observation bias.


Also, can someone post link to that one Cruzz thread before this one turns into 2.0 version?
16 May 2020, 10:02 AM
#23
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



So under 10 range, green cover or no cover is the same?

Point blank mechanism applies mostly to small arms. So green cover works for certain weapons even bellow 10 meters.


But Red cover still applies a debuff?

red "cover" does apply. Red cover is more like a property of the terrain and "less cover"



And trenches are garrison with green cover, do they behave like houses? Same question with bunkers

The are multipliers for green/garrison/trench/passenger are separate and different in most cases. They are close thou.

Keep in mind that "cover" provides mostly status and the modifier that apply are mostly a weapon property. Most weapon use similar modifier but there are some that use different ones.

In sort there is terrain, cover and garrison.
16 May 2020, 13:37 PM
#24
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

Since I don't see trenches often use (despite they are free), I was wondering why you would choose sandbags over trenches (for ukf for instance).

But if it behave like a green cover, then it must just be it's size.
16 May 2020, 13:41 PM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Since I don't see trenches often use (despite they are free), I was wondering why you would choose sandbags over trenches (for ukf for instance).

But if it behave like a green cover, then it must just be it's size.

Point blank mechanism does not apply to trenches.
16 May 2020, 13:46 PM
#26
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 13:41 PMVipper

Point blank mechanism does not apply to trenches.


That's even more curious.

And what does "Wind up/down" mean?
16 May 2020, 13:51 PM
#27
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



That's even more curious.

And what does "Wind up/down" mean?

Nothing particular, just an animation timer pre and post shot. Not every unit even has these values above 0.
16 May 2020, 14:41 PM
#28
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



That's even more curious.

...

Think of it as:

terrain: (road, water, snow, none,...)

Cover: light,green

Garrison: ambient buildings, trenches, bunkers, passenger
16 May 2020, 15:41 PM
#29
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 14:41 PMVipper

Think of it as:

terrain: (road, water, snow, none,...)

Cover: light,green

Garrison: ambient buildings, trenches, bunkers, passenger


I mean, trenches seems to be viable in every way, but still not use.
16 May 2020, 15:44 PM
#30
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 13:51 PMKatitof

Nothing particular, just an animation timer pre and post shot. Not every unit even has these values above 0.


Is it a bad thing on a tank for hit and run?
16 May 2020, 16:11 PM
#31
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



I mean, trenches seems to be viable in every way, but still not use.

There many way to easily clear trenches like grenades flamers mortars and so on...

Also hmg do not fire 360 and they can be used used against you.
16 May 2020, 16:27 PM
#32
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 16:11 PMVipper

There many way to easily clear trenches like grenades flamers mortars and so on...

Also hmg do not fire 360 and they can be used used against you.


yep, nades and flame thrower are logical but mortar a bit less
16 May 2020, 17:03 PM
#33
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



yep, nades and flame thrower are logical but mortar a bit less


ORTAR CHANGES

A number of general changes have been applied to a number of light indirect-fire options to reduce their squad wipe potential, improve anti-garrison counterplay, and reduce their range in the late game.
• Damage to garrisoned squads increased from 0.25 to 0.5
• AOE near damage multiplier decreased from 1 to 0.85
• Veterancy barrage range bonuses replaced by barrage scatter reduction for the majority of light indirect fire options.
16 May 2020, 19:52 PM
#34
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


Its not just mortars as well, its also tank shells. Its all explosives, and in fact, its all weapons.

As far as I'm aware, cover works by one simple rule: which direction was the projectile originally fired from. When you realize this, it becomes a little bit more intuitive imo.


I'm just gonna make a small correction or addendum.

While cover is correctly taken into account for every source, not every source of damage has modifiers against every type of cover.

For example: rocket artillery and Howitzers vs heavy cover. Dmg modifier is 1.0 while against garrison it's 0.25

Most tanks are really less efficient against garrison than heavy cover (main gun).

Flamers "ignore" cover as in having AT LEAST 1.0 modifier against them. But infantry based flame weapons have a 1.25 dmg modifier against HEAVY cover and GARRISON while vehicles based ones only have it against garrison.



So under 10 range, green cover or no cover is the same? But Red cover still applies a debuff?

And trenches are garrison with green cover, do they behave like houses? Same question with bunkers


THAT'S a problem because i don't remember if they ever made a revision to make them all work in the same way. At one point in the game, different types of trenches have different properties. Some behaved as Garrison and others as heavy cover.



17 May 2020, 09:12 AM
#35
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282


THAT'S a problem because i don't remember if they ever made a revision to make them all work in the same way. At one point in the game, different types of trenches have different properties. Some behaved as Garrison and others as heavy cover.


IMO this is not a problem, if would be legitimate for trenches to be weak against nades and flame-thrower but strong against indirect shell comparing to other type of Garrison.
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