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Congratulations balance team

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T.R. Stormjäger
13 Apr 2020, 19:49 PM
#61
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 19:31 PMelchino7
Clip analysis


Clip 3 is to piggyback on fire and terror’s point and show that even in cover the sections are mindless and ridiculous and did not need an out of cover buff.

Clip 2 is an answer to Katitof saying double 222s can push back the blob. Btw the teammate’s AEC killed the 222 in the clip.

Clip 1 speaks for itself, if those are Volks, Grenadiers, Cons then they don’t wipe everything while taking like 5 mode drops. Riflemen don’t count since they’re offensive minded and are nowhere near as good as Sections on defense.
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T.R. Stormjäger
13 Apr 2020, 19:51 PM
#62
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 19:46 PMEsxile
Question is how comes he only has this army size when his opponent have twice the investment in manpower and upgrades on his tommies


Just watch miragefla’s stream from yesterday. Seeking sniped just to show how broken sections are. 1st game was on kholodny ferma where miragefla got destroyed by sections spam, 2nd game on Eindhoven where he got blobbed to death all game long and Ost could not trade well at any stage.
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Vipper
13 Apr 2020, 19:52 PM
#63
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 19:46 PMEsxile
Left IS trow the grenade before being suppressed

https://imgur.com/W90dBBy

Right HMG get move order while one squad is still unsupressed, another recover and get the frag.

He's been brute forced and the move could have failed the same way it succeed. Question is how comes he only has this army size when his opponent have twice the investment in manpower and upgrades on his tommies

Maybe because he had to build a T1, a medic bunker, a T2, research BP1 and build an ATG...

:)
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Katitof
13 Apr 2020, 19:57 PM
#64
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 19:51 PMT.R. Stormjäger


Just watch miragefla’s stream from yesterday. Seeking sniped just to show how broken sections are. 1st game was on kholodny ferma where miragefla got destroyed by sections spam, 2nd game on Eindhoven where he got blobbed to death all game long and Ost could not trade well at any stage.

If sections are supposedly so broken on their own, why the need for all these upgrades, positioning, grenades and doctrinal ability on top of having overwhelming force advantage in that situation against unupgraded and wounded force?

Why did they needed everything I've mentioned if sections alone are so strong?

As I've said, any other faction would achieve the same here, approaching supported by DPS boosting doc ability, shitload of upgrades, used grenades and so on vs a force that didn't even used a single ability and repositioned perfectly positioned HMG before it even suppressed everything.

There is literally nothing to argue there.

And regarding the 222, how 1 222 at long range against 8 squads on top of each other proves me wrong, when I've said 2 222s and situation at hand was 2 separate groups? 222s AI potency rises greatly up close and there isn't really any reason to stay away from tommies, so you didn't exactly delivered counter argument, just exaggeration of what I've said.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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blvckdream
13 Apr 2020, 19:57 PM
#65
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 19:51 PMT.R. Stormjäger


Just watch miragefla’s stream from yesterday. Seeking sniped just to show how broken sections are. 1st game was on kholodny ferma where miragefla got destroyed by sections spam, 2nd game on Eindhoven where he got blobbed to death all game long and Ost could not trade well at any stage.


I'd recommend watching the VOD from the last 2v2 balance tournament instead of basing your opinion on balance on a better player blobbing against a worse player. At least then you can see current UKF in competitive games. I am not saying UKF is OP or not but it's strange people just ignore the fact there was a competitive tournament going on with this patch just two weeks ago.

As I pointed out before in the tournament UKF did not look OP at all and quite the contrary was usually carried more by Soviets. I am confused why there is such a fuss about UKF now but no one cared after the balance tournament? And also why did no one notice this during the six months testing period of the patch?
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ShadowLinkX37
13 Apr 2020, 20:09 PM
#66
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 19:46 PMEsxile
Left IS trow the grenade before being suppressed

https://imgur.com/W90dBBy

Right HMG get move order while one squad is still unsupressed, another recover and get the frag.

He's been brute forced and the move could have failed the same way it succeed. Question is how comes he only has this army size when his opponent have twice the investment in manpower and upgrades on his tommies


jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 19:40 PMelchino7


The left IS throw the nade before getting suppressed.


Not sure if there's a misunderstanding on what I meant or not, but the section on the center-left is suppressed before the grenade leaves his hand. That being the case, the range reduction should be in effect if it was any other squad, but on sections that is not the case. It's possible that he was close enough that he was in range regardless.

I think the issue was I believed the 2nd grenade came from the crawling section on the far right when I think it comes from the far left section. My original post was aimed at the center-left section. Apologies.
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Musti
13 Apr 2020, 20:13 PM
#67
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a single 340mp+90mu unit 1vs1 an MG - thats fine
a single unit runs straight at MG and throws a nuke-grenade at it - thats fine
But 4 bolstered, upgraded IS with grenades and with a doc ability take out an MG? - congrats balance team, well done.

You can't spell "Power Creep" without REEEEE.
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Kronosaur0s
13 Apr 2020, 20:29 PM
#68
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And these didnt have Brens. Imagine bois
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elchino7
13 Apr 2020, 20:32 PM
#69
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 19:49 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Clip 1 speaks for itself, if those are Volks, Grenadiers, Cons then they don’t wipe everything while taking like 5 mode drops. Riflemen don’t count since they’re offensive minded and are nowhere near as good as Sections on defense.


They would, if they spend similar amount of resources, popcap and commander abilities.

To replicate a similar value, it would be 10 Conscripts squad without 7 man upgrade. Charging with FMR and throwing molotovs. It might not wipe as fast, as with HE nades but they would win that fight nevertheless.

9 Volks, some with STGs, charging with FTF or Valiant Assault.

10 Grenadiers or 8 Grenadiers with 5th man upgrade, charging with Assault and Hold.


I didn't made exhaustive test but i replicated both scenarios on same map.

Two times test: 4 Volks with (only 2) and without STG (none) charging on the right side, with Valiant Assault, charging a Vickers and an IS. They have the same result. The left Volk manage to sneak and throw a grenade and they don't have issues wiping the IS.

For the left test, i went with 5 man upgrade 4 Gren squad and one simple one throwing 2 Rifle nades (cause i couldn't easily replicate the immediately wipe of the MG) at a Vickers and 2 IS. Got similar results when using Assault and Hold.
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And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

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elchino7
13 Apr 2020, 20:35 PM
#70
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 20:09 PMShadowLinkX37
Not sure if there's a misunderstanding on what I meant or not, but the section on the center-left is suppressed before the grenade leaves his hand. That being the case, the range reduction should be in effect if it was any other squad, but on sections that is not the case. It's possible that he was close enough that he was in range regardless.

I think the issue was I believed the 2nd grenade came from the crawling section on the far right when I think it comes from the far left section. My original post was aimed at the center-left section. Apologies.


Check again. 3 squads get's suppressed before the camera pans out. The model which throws the grenade comes from the far left squad which is not suppressed BEFORE the grenade is on the air.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Sander93
13 Apr 2020, 20:37 PM
#71
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 19:20 PMShadowLinkX37
Left MG42 got cheesed a bit because one of the sections got suppressed while throwing the grenade but they don't lose their range mid animation like other units do.


I know we're a bit late with this but we seem to have finally fixed this problem (grenade throwing animation not getting cancelled by suppression) just now so hopefully we can hotfix that soon. I think a significant part of the Infantry Section cheese (across all patches) has been caused by the fact that HMGs don't always work as well against them because they could still throw the mills/arty grenade while getting suppressed.
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distrofio
13 Apr 2020, 20:39 PM
#72
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We should have the ultimate cheeseblob test. IS vs volks or grens. With our without upgrades.

The winner gets triple nerf hammered

Add to the mix penUls, riflemen and conscripts.

All equalized by MP.
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T.R. Stormjäger
13 Apr 2020, 20:40 PM
#73
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 20:32 PMelchino7
To replicate a similar value, it would be 10 Conscripts squad without 7 man upgrade. Charging with FMR and throwing molotovs. It might not wipe as fast, as with HE nades but they would win that fight nevertheless.

9 Volks, some with STGs, charging with FTF or Valiant Assault.

10 Grenadiers or 8 Grenadiers with 5th man upgrade, charging with Assault and Hold.



Huh? When did you ever see these numbers in a serious game? Meanwhile 6-7 sections are extremely common now.

Let’s ask the real question: why can you field 6-7 upgraded sections in the midgame but not 10Cons/the others?
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distrofio
13 Apr 2020, 20:44 PM
#74
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 20:40 PMT.R. Stormjäger



Huh? When did you ever see these numbers in a serious game? Meanwhile 6-7 sections are extremely common now.

Let’s ask the real question: why can you field 6-7 upgraded sections in the midgame but not 10Cons/the others?

Because IS are very versatile now that they carry their own smoke with a little upgrade.
You can get them be 5 man making them cost efficient and upgrade them with AT in case the blob fest fails to win before the first LV comes
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EtherealDragon
13 Apr 2020, 20:46 PM
#75
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Stupid question but How exactly did the patch's balance changes affect the outcome of the clip?

I don't see how their increased moving accuracy came strongly into play since most of the sections were suppressed for the majority of the fight. Target size doesn't affect suppression AFAIK. If anything I'd like to see how the early game plays out- it's far more telling if Section spam forces several consecutive bad engagements in the early game that can't conceivably be countered by build order or micro that then snowballs into the clip seen.
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elchino7
13 Apr 2020, 20:50 PM
#76
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 20:40 PMT.R. Stormjäger



Huh? When did you ever see these numbers in a serious game? Meanwhile 6-7 sections are extremely common now.

Let’s ask the real question: why can you field 6-7 upgraded sections in the midgame but not 10Cons/the others?


Then you are deflecting the point of conversation. I said the examples are bad, not that IS spam as a concept is not stupid if it's viable.

A better player stomping with wierd comps is nothing new.

I had been wreck by PaulAD and CptSPrice multiple times in different patches when they blob whatever unit they would like. But i don't blame the game, i blame my lack of skills.


If we based our opinion by what happens in automatch in a single bad case, we would never had Conscripts been improved at all because a player called Redwing try to spam them all the time and make it work sometimes.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Fire and Terror
13 Apr 2020, 20:57 PM
#77
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Posts: 306

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 20:50 PMelchino7


Then you are deflecting the point of conversation. I said the examples are bad, not that IS spam as a concept is not stupid if it's viable.

A better player stomping with wierd comps is nothing new.

I had been wreck by PaulAD and CptSPrice multiple times in different patches when they blob whatever unit they would like. But i don't blame the game, i blame my lack of skills.


If we based our opinion by what happens in automatch in a single bad case, we would never had Conscripts been improved at all because a player called Redwing try to spam them all the time and make it work sometimes.


the problem with this logic is that players right now roflstomp others which they knew previously they could keep up a good fight espacially as another faction. I play brits right now, and they sure feel much easier then soviets which can be a struggle. 6 sections can be maintained more easily then 4 cons right now XD
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Vipper
13 Apr 2020, 21:02 PM
#78
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 20:32 PMelchino7


They would, if they spend similar amount of resources, popcap and commander abilities.
...

So are actually saying that HMG-42 is not superior to other HMG when it comes to dealing with blobs?
:)
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T.R. Stormjäger
13 Apr 2020, 21:03 PM
#79
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 20:50 PMelchino7
I had been wreck by PaulAD and CptSPrice multiple times in different patches when they blob whatever unit they would like. But i don't blame the game, i blame my lack of skills.


And how exactly is getting rekt by a much better player doing a meme strat the same as getting rekt by equally skilled players spamming sections with minimal effort?
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Katitof
13 Apr 2020, 21:05 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 21:02 PMVipper

So are actually saying that HMG-42 is not superior to other HMG when it comes to dealing with blobs?

Well, maxim would just deathloop without even suppressing a single squad.

Let me remind you that a singular squad can frontally crawl up to it and nuke it with nade, there is even clip around from last month showing exactly this.

HMG42 is superior to others.
Superior to others does not mean invincible, others would just be sniped before suppressing anything.

There is also this thing called critical mass, where a single HMG will just not work anymore.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 21:03 PMT.R. Stormjäger


And how exactly is getting rekt by a much better player doing a meme strat the same as getting rekt by equally skilled players spamming sections with minimal effort?

For one, that better player will not just use single control group and a-move frontally, but will slightly spread his squads, use their abilities and use doctrinal buffs.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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