Ram + Offmap combo needs to be nerfed

Play a game, ram a Tiger, Elefant, KT, Jt and call in a il2 rocket strafe on it. come back here then and post the replay

ive done it countless times now, its not reliable.
i cant waste as many t34s as i have to call in the strafe to destroy one of the aforementioned tanks, thats what on earth im talking about.

Yeah why would it be as reliable? It costs half as much that's the entire point...

It will leave the tank damn close to dead, in team games you'll likely just need 1 shot from an allies TD to finish it off. Or your own... Just have an su85...

It's not that hard to make it worth it, of fucking course it will require slightly more work. But saying you need to sacrifice 2 t34s is a joke

i didnt say you need to ram with 2 t34s, i was making an equasion to match the worth i get out of 1ram + clusterbombs

Removing the chance to get engine damage from the ram should help. And if it doesn't, decrease the plane speed or increase the time to cast. This way the ability remain the same but need much more planification than just a kamikaze T-34 and 2 click to destroy a JT or a KT.

Removing the chance to get engine damage from the ram should help. And if it doesn't, decrease the plane speed or increase the time to cast. This way the ability remain the same but need much more planification than just a kamikaze T-34 and 2 click to destroy a JT or a KT.

I am not sure if that would help since many times it seems that the stun itself on impact is enough time to use an off map.

One could try to make ram a vet 1 ability that scales with veterancy.

I am not sure if that would help since many times it seems that the stun itself on impact is enough time to use an off map.

One could try to make ram a vet 1 ability that scales with veterancy.

The stun shouldn't be adress, just the plane speed to give a wider window of opportunity and give a greater risk to use this combo (like the need to pre-cast the skill before the T-34 ram).

The stun shouldn't be adress, just the plane speed to give a wider window of opportunity and give a greater risk to use this combo (like the need to pre-cast the skill before the T-34 ram).

One could remove or reduce duration of stun on deflection so that it become more difficult to pull the combo ram frontally and make penetration increase with veterancy.

That would allow the abilities to remain useful even without ram but make the combo less potent.

so are you going to suggest nerfing Target Weakpoint + stuka at strafe aswell?

so are you going to suggest nerfing Target Weakpoint + stuka at strafe aswell?

Since it already cost more and has less AOE and target weak point has a delay + can bounce + isn't an offensive tool but a defensive tool: That's a no.

Since it already cost more and has less AOE and target weak point has a delay + can bounce + isn't an offensive tool but a defensive tool: That's a no.

nice and onesided approach

you forgot to mention that you dont have to sacrifice a tank for it and the at strafe fires as soon as the plane enters the battlefield

less aoe? the strafe covers every inch of the indicated strafing path if it is not interrupted by buildings or trees. the rockets have an inconsistent pattern

it costs more: strafe alone 10ammo, target weakpoint 40 (i think), no fuel or manpower needed so 150 ammo in my humble opinion is less than 100ammo and 90 fuel

nice and onesided approach

you forgot to mention that you dont have to sacrifice a tank for it and the at strafe fires as soon as the plane enters the battlefield

less aoe? the strafe covers every inch of the indicated strafing path if it is not interrupted by buildings or trees. the rockets have an inconsistent pattern

it costs more: strafe alone 10ammo, target weakpoint 40 (i think), no fuel or manpower needed so 150 ammo in my humble opinion is less than 100ammo and 90 fuel

Once sided? You seriously try to compare 2 doc which do not hold the same role on the battlefield? By picking Soviet airborn you have power on the field and call-in available, while the stuka air strafe belongs to a useless doc because it only has late game off-map skill.

Only 3 units have acces to "Tarket weak point": Elephant which is not in this doc, pak-40 which is a defensiv tool, and Pak-43 also a doc and a defensiv tool.

So you have to get a pak-40 vet 1 to perform a "Tarket weak point", but there is a quite long load time attach to this ability, so if you're not blind you can just avoid the pak-40.

So on one hand you have an ability which belongs to a powerfull and polyvalent commander and which can be combo with non-doc T-34 (with has ram availaible from the get go) wherever on the map and without any predisposition. Effective in defense and offense without much micro.

On the other hand you have a niche/useless commander which only has plane and a similar ability yet more expensive which also require a pak-40 vet 1 ready to shot and which can bounce. So you can't decide to rush in the ennemy line with your pak-40 and pop the ability (because you can "target weak point" only when the pak is set up, and if it change position, the ability is wasted). So it is not an offensiv tool, and even in defense, you seriously have to be prepared.

Plus "target weak point" only stun the vehicule for 5 sec while the T-34 ram stun (probably for the same duration, and can damage engine or even destroy it.

If you need your stun to last more than 5 seconds you seriously need to work on your play....

i didnt compare any doctrines and i also dont know why it should matter. it exists

stug also has target weakpoint which results in a blind

if youre not blind you can avoid the t34, what kind of argument is this

it has ram from the get go, thats right.

no idea why you keep on talking about offensive and defensive. does it matter where i destroy enemy tanks? you can also use ram as a defensive tool.
+ its absolutely no problem to use a pak, stug, elephant on the attack. the pak 43 might be limited, k

i did a lot of rams lately, havent seen an engine dmg on an elefant or JT
not even on a panther

...

i did a lot of rams lately, havent seen an engine dmg on an elefant or JT
not even on a panther

Try ramming from side/rear engine damage requires penetration if I remember correctly.

i didnt compare any doctrines and i also dont know why it should matter. it exists

stug also has target weakpoint which results in a blind

if youre not blind you can avoid the t34, what kind of argument is this

it has ram from the get go, thats right.

no idea why you keep on talking about offensive and defensive. does it matter where i destroy enemy tanks? you can also use ram as a defensive tool.
+ its absolutely no problem to use a pak, stug, elephant on the attack. the pak 43 might be limited, k

i did a lot of rams lately, havent seen an engine dmg on an elefant or JT
not even on a panther

A competence is good within a good commander and if you count synergy. The strafe by itself isn't overpowered, but with T-34 ram, it become an easy unavoidable combo.

If it is used, it's because it goes along with a good commander, which end up giving to much powerfull tool within the same commander.

That's call a multifactorial study.

The stug skill is call "Heat shell" and does not immobilize the tank, so it has no combo with strafe.

The more versatile, the stronger the tool is. As I said the stun of a pak isn't meant to be use offensivly because, and I hope it is clear for everyone, that a support weapon has not the same manoeuvrability as a medium tank, while the ram is, so this combo is more versatile, so it is more powerful.

Well, I've done a lot of game recently, and the number of Close Air Support I've meet is low, really low. And the number of Weak point+Stuka strafe=0. Whereas the number of T-34 ram+IL-2 rocket is high, very high.

i did a lot of rams lately, havent seen an engine dmg on an elefant or JT
not even on a panther

Try ramming from side/rear engine damage requires penetration if I remember correctly.

What Vipper said. Ram has a penetration of 160 so doing it from a flank helps

For panthers though you're just having bad luck. 160 penetration gives it ~61% of causing a critical against frontal armor

Removing the chance to get engine damage from the ram should help. And if it doesn't, decrease the plane speed or increase the time to cast. This way the ability remain the same but need much more planification than just a kamikaze T-34 and 2 click to destroy a JT or a KT.

Since it already cost more and has less AOE and target weak point has a delay + can bounce + isn't an offensive tool but a defensive tool: That's a no.

I don't think target weak point can bounce. It should have 100% more pen and i don't think there's any allied tank which can deflect it.

That been said, the problem is not the engine dmg but the slight chance of heavy/immobilization which still exists and is not necessary for the ability. Just further puts salt on the wound.
The only "cheesy" combination is the IL rocket strafe cause it's cheaper and arrives faster

Show Spoiler

I don't think that ram need changes BUT as far as "plain nerfs" towards ram (outside of removing the small heavy crits) i would reduce penetration to 140/150 which would be the highest rear armor value of Tiger IIRC.

Any further change to ram should be equal compensated with buffs to the ability. Say if you reduce the stun duration, reduce the self damage or crits inflicted on itself by the T34.


All in all, i think it would be easier and more healthy to the game if you were to move the IL2 bombing strike from the ISU commander and the same be done with the Stuka dive bomb from Jaeger armor.

I don't think target weak point can bounce. It should have 100% more pen and i don't think there's any allied tank which can deflect it.

That been said, the problem is not the engine dmg but the slight chance of heavy/immobilization which still exists and is not necessary for the ability. Just further puts salt on the wound.
The only "cheesy" combination is the IL rocket strafe cause it's cheaper and arrives faster

Show Spoiler

I don't think that ram need changes BUT as far as "plain nerfs" towards ram (outside of removing the small heavy crits) i would reduce penetration to 140/150 which would be the highest rear armor value of Tiger IIRC.

It does, only on big armor such as IS-2, but the Weak Point grant 900% pen, which doesn't grant 100% chance of pen thanks to the maths of the game.

It does, only on big armor such as IS-2, but the Weak Point grant 900% pen, which doesn't grant 100% chance of pen thanks to the maths of the game.

???

https://i.serealia.ca/files/coh2dps.html#76

Pak40 is listed as 380 pen at far range. IS2 armor is at 340 and was at 375 before the nerf.

All in all, i think it would be easier and more healthy to the game if you were to move the IL2 bombing strike from the ISU commander and the same be done with the Stuka dive bomb from Jaeger armor.

This is what needs to be done. No commander should "have it all"

All in all, i think it would be easier and more healthy to the game if you were to move the IL2 bombing strike from the ISU commander and the same be done with the Stuka dive bomb from Jaeger armor.

+1, Yes please!