What if we made the Flame Hetzer a useful unit?

Double AT gun from any faction has been able to counter mediums for a pretty long time now. At no point have you needed a vehicle to counter mediums

It definitely makes it easier if you a a vehicle with AT, but 2x AT guns can still do really well, especially if you have something to bait with

double AT gun will also stop hezter the same way they will stop any other meduim.

double AT gun will also stop hezter the same way they will stop any other meduim.

Not the same way at all, a hetzer is specifically strong at killing team weapons

Flame weapons are really good at causing anyones AT guns to deathloop

Not the same way at all, a hetzer is specifically strong at killing team weapons

Flame weapons are really good at causing anyones AT guns to deathloop

KV-8 work fine vs ATGs, Hezter not that much.
Just read post 32.

KV-8 work fine vs ATGs, Hezter not that much.
Just read post 32.

I didn't say anything about parking your hetzer in front of 2 AT guns. I said its better at killing them than medium tanks

Parking a medium tank in front of 2 AT guns will have the same result as the scenario in that post. Only heavy tanks can park in front of AT guns, and even then its still not a great idea

I didn't say anything about parking your hetzer in front of 2 AT guns. I said its better at killing them than medium tanks

Parking a medium tank in front of 2 AT guns will have the same result as the scenario in that post. Only heavy tanks can park in front of AT guns, and even then its still not a great idea

We are simply drifting.

The point I have made is that Hezter holds limited shock value and is useful only under certain circumstances. It is risk not worth taking in most cases.

So, are we now at that point that we can say that KV8 is op?

So, are we now at that point that we can say that KV8 is op?

Yes, you can say that.
Show Spoiler

Other than meme games it's never used. It was used in one game during 67 OKW games in the last big 1v1 tournament. Don't fool yourself, no one will go Flame Hetzer in a serious game.

Not praising the doctrine as top tier but the tournament was played in only 5 maps and those were:

Crossroads, Faymonville, Kholodny, Nexus and Langres.

The doctrine got plenty of use before heavy tanks were buffed into space and picking anything else but grand operations became a meme

Are you joking? Do you have any idea how strong heavy tanks were a few years ago? Have you played Tiger ace when it came out? They were not game breakers, they were session enders and made people ragequit. One single Tiger ALONE, without any support whatsoever, could clean up an entire game. There was a tourney game where I think Luvnest lost every unit except for one or two pioneers, and still won because he had Tiger ace.


Even if you would buff the flamehetzer, the rest of the doctrine would still be ass and forbid any use in a competitive scenario. It's a classic meme doctrine. It has too obvious weakspots, is too obviously countered by almost any meta build.

Pretty much every ability in the doctrine would have to be replaced/buffed in order to be useful, sans Opel.

So, are we now at that point that we can say that KV8 is op?

The KV-8 used to be bugged, which made it have 2 flamethrowers. Each flamethrower was also much much more effective than they are now. Then it was super overpowered and pretty much an instant win whenever it was called in.


Now however, it is rarely seen, despite being in a considerably better spot than Hetzer, which only reinforces the trashy-ness of the Hetzer, never being spotted at all.

Are you joking? Do you have any idea how strong heavy tanks were a few years ago? Have you played Tiger ace when it came out? They were not game breakers, they were session enders and made people ragequit. One single Tiger ALONE, without any support whatsoever, could clean up an entire game. There was a tourney game where I think Luvnest lost every unit except for one or two pioneers, and still won because he had Tiger ace.


Even if you would buff the flamehetzer, the rest of the doctrine would still be ass and forbid any use in a competitive scenario. It's a classic meme doctrine. It has too obvious weakspots, is too obviously countered by almost any meta build.

Pretty much every ability in the doctrine would have to be replaced/buffed in order to be useful, sans Opel.




The KV-8 used to be bugged, which made it have 2 flamethrowers. Each flamethrower was also much much more effective than they are now. Then it was super overpowered and pretty much an instant win whenever it was called in.


Now however, it is rarely seen, despite being in a considerably better spot than Hetzer, which only reinforces the trashy-ness of the Hetzer, never being spotted at all.

the KV8 is pretty strong... but IS2 is even bette

The KV-8 used to be bugged, which made it have 2 flamethrowers. Each flamethrower was also much much more effective than they are now. Then it was super overpowered and pretty much an instant win whenever it was called in.


Now however, it is rarely seen, despite being in a considerably better spot than Hetzer, which only reinforces the trashy-ness of the Hetzer, never being spotted at all.

Wasn't that Croc?

To buff Firestorm I would:

1) Make the Flamethrower and sweeper non-exclusive, but you can’t have both out at the same time. That way you aren’t forced to get a second Spio(which is suicidal) if you want to use this ability
2) reduce the flame hetzer’s cost to 75 and bundle it with the StuG G. That way you can go for a Flame hetzer and StuG G combo

To buff Firestorm I would:

1) Make the Flamethrower and sweeper non-exclusive, but you can’t have both out at the same time. That way you aren’t forced to get a second Spio(which is suicidal) if you want to use this ability
2) reduce the flame hetzer’s cost to 75 and bundle it with the StuG G. That way you can go for a Flame hetzer and StuG G combo

Or allow the Hetzer to switch to AP rounds if that is possible

Or allow the Hetzer to switch to AP rounds if that is possible

W H A T

The gun on the flame variant of the Hetzer was ENTIRELY REMOVED to make room for a flamethrower tube. This would be so unrealistic it would be funny

W H A T

The gun on the flame variant of the Hetzer was ENTIRELY REMOVED to make room for a flamethrower tube. This would be so unrealistic it would be funny

Oh, nevermind. I didn't think about that.

Wasn't that Croc?

The Croc too I think, but it became apparent with the KV-8 before the Brits even got released

Oh, nevermind. I didn't think about that.

I'm all for loading shells into the same tube and using the flamethrower to push them out

I think the two ez mode factions have more than enough "useful units".

Are you joking? Do you have any idea how strong heavy tanks were a few years ago? Have you played Tiger ace when it came out? They were not game breakers, they were session enders and made people ragequit. One single Tiger ALONE, without any support whatsoever, could clean up an entire game. There was a tourney game where I think Luvnest lost every unit except for one or two pioneers, and still won because he had Tiger ace.


Even if you would buff the flamehetzer, the rest of the doctrine would still be ass and forbid any use in a competitive scenario. It's a classic meme doctrine. It has too obvious weakspots, is too obviously countered by almost any meta build.

Pretty much every ability in the doctrine would have to be replaced/buffed in order to be useful, sans Opel.




The KV-8 used to be bugged, which made it have 2 flamethrowers. Each flamethrower was also much much more effective than they are now. Then it was super overpowered and pretty much an instant win whenever it was called in.


Now however, it is rarely seen, despite being in a considerably better spot than Hetzer, which only reinforces the trashy-ness of the Hetzer, never being spotted at all.

Sorry but you are spewing too much BS.

Heavies had been strong, but you don't need to go back to 2013. They had moments on which they were strong and weak (which was the case before the latest changes to heavies).
Not all metas, specially teamgames and 2v2, revolved around the normal heavies (Tiger/IS2/Pershing). In the case of 3v3+ they were the exception more than the norm.

You are confused with the Crocodile and it's not a matter of it been bugged, but that flamethrower performance was been normalised and a way to double up the damage of heavier vehicles they got an "invisible" weapon to do the job.

More on this:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/36347/cruzz-s-the-more-you-know/post/496033


All this discussion on the Hetzer reminds me of old FHQ commander. Good at one thing, on specific mode and map and plays more like cheese than anything else.