wehrmacht buff opinions

Werfer aside, I fully agree.

Could you explain why the werfer is ok.
It comes out late, has really telegraphed barrage , only really useful for offense not defense. Compared to the katty it's lacking versatility, hell even the katty's alpha strike is more reliable than that of a werfer.

Could you explain why the werfer is ok.
It comes out late, has really telegraphed barrage , only really useful for offense not defense. Compared to the katty it's lacking versatility, hell even the katty's alpha strike is more reliable than that of a werfer.

I always do well with it. Usually I sneak it close and when units clump up I launch a diversion to take away the enemy’s attention then launch a barrage that usually wipes. I don’t think it needs to change, otherwise it would be too potent.

I always do well with it. Usually I sneak it close and when units clump up I launch a diversion to take away the enemy’s attention then launch a barrage that usually wipes. I don’t think it needs to change, otherwise it would be too potent.

But can't the katty and stuka do the same?

But can't the katty and stuka do the same?

Katyusha yes, although you need to protect it more since it fires 4 times.

The stuka zu fuβ is different, since there’s no difference if you fire it from min or max range and you fire on a straight line so your targeting is different.

All 3 are good in my opinion, though I am a fan of the stuka zu fuβ.

In my opinion and on my own observations:
Mgs (Doenst matter which faction) gets weaker the longer the game goes. Increased yellow cover / RA vet buffs for opponents / increased indirect fire is the source of that, imp.

Axis mg gets most affected because of their slowness. Late game the suppression and arc gets less useful. Yet Axis mg are more needed to hold allies blob. Go figure...

RA doesn't matter at suppressing squads directly shot at.

Thanks for the correction.

That’s more of a map issue in corridor 2v2 maps. 60 range is needed when you deal with more lethal and heavier armoured tanks. You need to outrange them. I understand the complain and agree with it, but imo it’s more of a symptom of tanks reversing at the same speed as they go forward.

Not really.
I agree 60 range is needed in this case.

BUT when you add 60 range with advantages in acccuracy, pen, sight, moving accuracy, damages and even 640hp, at cheaper costs. I dont think its necessary. It becomes oppressive.

I agree reversing same speed for 60Td, is part of their oppressiveness. Makes your 60ATg have trouble taking a hit.

RA doesn't matter at suppressing squads directly shot at.

If I remember correctly elchino7 made some test where he proved that accuracy does matter in suppressing squads directly shot at.

My buff Ostheer idea is to buff the Panther penetration to make it better against allied Heavies without making it better against mediums (to avoid panther dominance in team games).

I would also slightly buff the 222 penetration so a 222 or a 444 becomes a more viable option to deal with allied light tank, giving OST the much needed agressive AT option in the early midgame instead of only having defensive options.

Katyusha yes, although you need to protect it more since it fires 4 times.

The stuka zu fuβ is different, since there’s no difference if you fire it from min or max range and you fire on a straight line so your targeting is different.

All 3 are good in my opinion, though I am a fan of the stuka zu fuβ.

But isn't kinda sad that t4 arty piece get outshone by t1(more like t2) unit like stuka and a t3 unit like the katty. Not saying it's bad but it's kinda sad. Also the LeFH makes the werfer kinda irrelevant(though you won't see a LeFH in 1v1).

But isn't kinda sad that t4 arty piece get outshone by t1(more like t2) unit like stuka and a t3 unit like the katty. Not saying it's bad but it's kinda sad. Also the LeFH makes the werfer kinda irrelevant(though you won't see a LeFH in 1v1).

Tier doesn’t really matter in cross faction comparisons since timings and other factors are taken into account. As for team games, when facing support weapons spam the Werfer is excellent, especially if you get an artillery officer.

Tier doesn’t really matter in cross faction comparisons since timings and other factors are taken into account. As for team games, when facing support weapons spam the Werfer is excellent, especially if you get an artillery officer.

oh yeah the op insta second barrage, but only available in pay to win commanders near you.

RA doesn't matter at suppressing squads directly shot at.

Thanks for the correction.

That is not the case.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/97939/suppression-mechanic-how-does-it-really-works/page/2

TL;DR:

-Accuracy matters for suppression. Individual and AoE.
-After modding the game to account for accuracy (1% vs 100% MG), results don't align with what we know about suppression.
-I have an hypothesis that the reason we had armor on infantry, was to make suppression uniform across the game duration.

Nerf russians and Ostheer will be a better faction

That is not the case.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/97939/suppression-mechanic-how-does-it-really-works/page/2

TL;DR:

-Accuracy matters for suppression. Individual and AoE.
-After modding the game to account for accuracy (1% vs 100% MG), results don't align with what we know about suppression.
-I have an hypothesis that the reason we had armor on infantry, was to make suppression uniform across the game duration.

thanks again. I guess just because someone talks like he knows something does not make it true ;-)

I always do well with it. Usually I sneak it close and when units clump up I launch a diversion to take away the enemy’s attention then launch a barrage that usually wipes. I don’t think it needs to change, otherwise it would be too potent.

You can't SNEAK a werfer up close. It's called "risking your neck" everytime to be effective. Unlike katy which sits back at max range and racks up vet slow and steady with effective area denial. Werfer is basically inferior to the katy in every way unless u get a wipe everytime. I've seen even min range werfer barrages leave one man alive, that should not be a possibility if I microed my werfer to get close to min range and back to safety, something the katy doesn't need to do as much. That's why I suggest either a slightly faster cooldown so it shoots slightly more often, from 2 minutes to 90 seconds. Or add 2 or 3 more rockets so that there is NO chance of survival at min range.

The werfer is "useable" right now. The Brum however, is NOT.

Ost simply needs its intended design. Premium lategame. That means T4 buffs.

Ost disadvantages
Ost is already disadvantaged because of the 4 men squads and its reliance on team weapons. MG42 Grens are wonky since they can't fire on the move, PGs will always be odd since they don't have that long range firepower. Another disadvantage is the lack of an armoured light vehicle.

Lategame advantage of any Allied faction, aka outperforming Ostheers supposed advantage
T4 buffs also wouldn't hurt any allied faction more than it should. Currently Soviets are batshit OP at any stage of the game but specifically in the lategame against their intended design. Brits have an advantage lategame with the Churchill or Comet which greatly outperform the German cats. The British problem lies in wonky transition from early to mid game and lack of artillery. USF have the Jackson to hard coutner any tank.

Solution
That being said: Brummbär needs its old range back and a tiny front armor boost.

Panther needs accuracy on the move.

Panzerwerfer performs strange. Sometimes it wipes, other times it can't hit stuff. I feel the Panzerwerfers biggest flaw is the lack of being able to cover a bigger area aka a Soviet player parking his 6 men weapon crews somewhat close to each other but far enough away from each other so the Werfer can't hit them both. Hard to explain. Anyhow, the Werfer can't push that away while any other artillery can. If possible the vet 1 could be replaced with a "spread out" barrage, somewhat Katjusha style.

Another idea I was thinking to counter Allies LV is to give Puma as a non-doctrinal unit to Wher. I know one commander will need to change but this will greatly help with 3 v 3 and 4 v 4 games as well where T-70 is rampant!

Solution
That being said: Brummbär needs its old range back and a tiny front armor boost.

I do like the idea of buffing Brumbar's range again but damage vs vehicles needs to be nerfed. I think the major problem back in the day was T-34s and AT combined arms was struggling hard to kill Brumbars. If Brumbar needs to counter static game play such as AT guns then damage vs vehicles needs to be toned down and make it strict AI vehicle.

Ost simply needs its intended design. Premium lategame. That means T4 buffs.

Panzerwerfer performs strange.[...]Hard to explain. Anyhow, the Werfer can't push that away while any other artillery can. If possible the vet 1 could be replaced with a "spread out" barrage, somewhat Katjusha style.

+1