What I can do in this game to down my oppenent ?
I don't take the good choices in middle game, but what YOU (pgm ) would do VS Vet blob, under the ACE spawn ?
Maxim's, KV1 spam or ... ?
Any suggest to progress
25 Jan 2014, 12:09 PM
#1
Posts: 24
25 Jan 2014, 13:38 PM
#2
Posts: 84
Alright buddy, let me watch!
25 Jan 2014, 15:24 PM
#3
Posts: 84
Disclaimer:
Alright, for starters - sorry if this sounds overly critical, and for writing a lot. I am not claiming to be the master at this game or anything like that - Just trying to help you and myself get better! This was actually a pretty cool game to watch, and I expected you to be uber beginner level so that is why I am going to go more in depth because I think you can easily take these recommendations and implement them to your play at your level.
Now that that's out of the way, I will say you had a pretty good beg-mid game! Late game takes some time to figure out. You guys were pretty evenly matched throughout the game, and this is the best kind of match to improve your game from. However, I think there are some aspects of your opening strategy, tactics, and build order you may want think about.
Opening Build = good.
Your opening build looked like this con,con,con,mol,shocks.
This is a pretty strong start, and I think you seemed really comfortable with it so I would keep it. However, afterward...after the shocks that is where I'd recommend going another conscript and eying out the situation before deciding what your next type of units will be. The extra conscripts will serve mostly to keep up with map control, as going shocks and molotovs can be expensive in terms of squad numbers (as sovs you want to have more squads in the beginning -- axis will spend money on teching, vetting, and buildings).
Eying the situation out. 5 minute mark!
I would also recommend not retreating your beginning engineer so soon. Hop dat fence and go explore the munition/VP. If he didn't take that strategic point you should consider that as a free point for yourself (yes I know he sent his own engie squad up there, but assume he didn't if you have that strat point). If you can logically explain to me what you going to do with the engineer and why its important you do it so swiftly during the match: I have no quarrels. This is important. What did you use him for? - you go back to your base and build the Support Weapon Kampaneya. You really needed munitions this game.
Why go back to your base so early? The point im trying to make is this: eye your situation out at THIS moment of the match. It is absolutely critical at this point because its the pivoting point of your opponents strategy. This is what would be going through my mind. "ok gren, gren, gren.... where is his shit at this point?" if you don't see any tier 2 units in the next 2 minutes and he builds more t3 ASSUME HE IS GOING T3 (even if he goes t2, its a safer bet assuming a tank will be coming out around the 10 minute-11 min mark if he is conservative with his fuel). This of course is going to vary from game to game because one person may pressure fuel, the next may not - so after each game look at the construction tab in the post game lobby and look at the TIME of his tech.
Ok I could literally write a research paper on that but I'm not going to because people on this forum will start yelling at me about all the mistakes in it lol. (MVGame)
Caught With Your Pants Down.
Lets say you find yourself in this situation where you just finished building your support weapon kampaneya and..."DAMNIT he went that stupid fucking tier 2 'buy veterancy on my already strong PG' BULLSHIT." (I rage ) We are at the stage where making an AT gun would be impractical. Instead consider getting a maxim and very very carefully set up a conscript as a scout for him so he can suppress THAT squad. This is harder than it looks, and honestly you might want to just say fuck it to building anything out of that the support weapon kampaneya for a while. Going two shocks is easier to handle in my opinion. Also, I'd recommend getting a flamethrower squad engineer squad as they can be very effective against pgs (CAN BE).
So - you eye out that he went tier two you get a counter to the already present PGS. Delicious. Now its time to be one step ahead of your opponent. Getting AT nades can be a life saver. "But, JaminROCK.. some people may not go half track or scout car." True. However, You will need AT grenades at some point in the game, and I can't tell you how frustrating it is to see a flamethrower half-track murder all your men... ALLLLL the way back to your base. It sucks, but like you said you could be wasting your manpower and fuel on it. If you have enough map control and have enough conscripts on the field in a nice little spread then just wait until you see the first armored car.
From here it would take too much effort to speculate what you should reconsider in your strategy - there are so many things to do in this game its ridiculous. So I will go back to the game you played.
Tank Wars
About 15 mins in - still even match. AMAZING barrage (and another at 21). Props man that was really good. I'd recommend being more aggressive with your kv1 if you see a p4. Sometimes u almost want to go balls deep (sometimes). They eat p4s for breakfast lunch and dinner. The more times you be aggressive with your tank, the more you realize just how much far you can push it (TO THE LIMITS). Pressuring the middle with him, and cutting the top side off is a rather effective move. In my opinion - don't use him to defend the flanks.. and random things capping the sides. That's what your opponent wants as it buys him time to get schrecks and other counters. Make sure he understands that you are the predator for now, and make him feel like he doesn't have control of the tank situation. Appearing with the kv1, shooting once and letting him back away is not how you want him to understand you are the predator. Make him run for his fucking life as you try to eat his tank...EAT THAT P4.
TOO MUCH ANTI TANK TECH
Pick one/two: Kv1, At guns, or Su85.
You dont need all 3 of them, they all do the same job pretty efficiently. Get infantry to make the threat of AT nades present. Teching to to SUs after getting kv1s and at guns is just too damn expensive for what you are trying to do. Its the manpower that's the problem at this point for you. At the same time, if you like to sit back and poke (which u seemed to like) i'd recommend not getting any at guns, and just getting SU85s. You seemed very comfortable barraging enemy troops into a bloody gore with your AT gun so its your call.
Ending statements
I never saw the enemy get his tiger ace, but the best bet is to range him with su85s/at guns or do something like this: http://www.twitch.tv/andyisrippin/c/3407676 . Or mines. They are tough. I'm still trying to figure that one out myself. You really should be using buildings more, they are amazing. Also use the shift command for capping. I notice you like idle units MVGame.
Hope this helps you out Yenz, and it was a GG nonetheless. Thanks for posting.
- JaminROCK
Alright, for starters - sorry if this sounds overly critical, and for writing a lot. I am not claiming to be the master at this game or anything like that - Just trying to help you and myself get better! This was actually a pretty cool game to watch, and I expected you to be uber beginner level so that is why I am going to go more in depth because I think you can easily take these recommendations and implement them to your play at your level.
Now that that's out of the way, I will say you had a pretty good beg-mid game! Late game takes some time to figure out. You guys were pretty evenly matched throughout the game, and this is the best kind of match to improve your game from. However, I think there are some aspects of your opening strategy, tactics, and build order you may want think about.
Opening Build = good.
Your opening build looked like this con,con,con,mol,shocks.
This is a pretty strong start, and I think you seemed really comfortable with it so I would keep it. However, afterward...after the shocks that is where I'd recommend going another conscript and eying out the situation before deciding what your next type of units will be. The extra conscripts will serve mostly to keep up with map control, as going shocks and molotovs can be expensive in terms of squad numbers (as sovs you want to have more squads in the beginning -- axis will spend money on teching, vetting, and buildings).
Eying the situation out. 5 minute mark!
I would also recommend not retreating your beginning engineer so soon. Hop dat fence and go explore the munition/VP. If he didn't take that strategic point you should consider that as a free point for yourself (yes I know he sent his own engie squad up there, but assume he didn't if you have that strat point). If you can logically explain to me what you going to do with the engineer and why its important you do it so swiftly during the match: I have no quarrels. This is important. What did you use him for? - you go back to your base and build the Support Weapon Kampaneya. You really needed munitions this game.
Why go back to your base so early? The point im trying to make is this: eye your situation out at THIS moment of the match. It is absolutely critical at this point because its the pivoting point of your opponents strategy. This is what would be going through my mind. "ok gren, gren, gren.... where is his shit at this point?" if you don't see any tier 2 units in the next 2 minutes and he builds more t3 ASSUME HE IS GOING T3 (even if he goes t2, its a safer bet assuming a tank will be coming out around the 10 minute-11 min mark if he is conservative with his fuel). This of course is going to vary from game to game because one person may pressure fuel, the next may not - so after each game look at the construction tab in the post game lobby and look at the TIME of his tech.
Ok I could literally write a research paper on that but I'm not going to because people on this forum will start yelling at me about all the mistakes in it lol. (MVGame)
Caught With Your Pants Down.
Lets say you find yourself in this situation where you just finished building your support weapon kampaneya and..."DAMNIT he went that stupid fucking tier 2 'buy veterancy on my already strong PG' BULLSHIT." (I rage ) We are at the stage where making an AT gun would be impractical. Instead consider getting a maxim and very very carefully set up a conscript as a scout for him so he can suppress THAT squad. This is harder than it looks, and honestly you might want to just say fuck it to building anything out of that the support weapon kampaneya for a while. Going two shocks is easier to handle in my opinion. Also, I'd recommend getting a flamethrower squad engineer squad as they can be very effective against pgs (CAN BE).
So - you eye out that he went tier two you get a counter to the already present PGS. Delicious. Now its time to be one step ahead of your opponent. Getting AT nades can be a life saver. "But, JaminROCK.. some people may not go half track or scout car." True. However, You will need AT grenades at some point in the game, and I can't tell you how frustrating it is to see a flamethrower half-track murder all your men... ALLLLL the way back to your base. It sucks, but like you said you could be wasting your manpower and fuel on it. If you have enough map control and have enough conscripts on the field in a nice little spread then just wait until you see the first armored car.
From here it would take too much effort to speculate what you should reconsider in your strategy - there are so many things to do in this game its ridiculous. So I will go back to the game you played.
Tank Wars
About 15 mins in - still even match. AMAZING barrage (and another at 21). Props man that was really good. I'd recommend being more aggressive with your kv1 if you see a p4. Sometimes u almost want to go balls deep (sometimes). They eat p4s for breakfast lunch and dinner. The more times you be aggressive with your tank, the more you realize just how much far you can push it (TO THE LIMITS). Pressuring the middle with him, and cutting the top side off is a rather effective move. In my opinion - don't use him to defend the flanks.. and random things capping the sides. That's what your opponent wants as it buys him time to get schrecks and other counters. Make sure he understands that you are the predator for now, and make him feel like he doesn't have control of the tank situation. Appearing with the kv1, shooting once and letting him back away is not how you want him to understand you are the predator. Make him run for his fucking life as you try to eat his tank...EAT THAT P4.
TOO MUCH ANTI TANK TECH
Pick one/two: Kv1, At guns, or Su85.
You dont need all 3 of them, they all do the same job pretty efficiently. Get infantry to make the threat of AT nades present. Teching to to SUs after getting kv1s and at guns is just too damn expensive for what you are trying to do. Its the manpower that's the problem at this point for you. At the same time, if you like to sit back and poke (which u seemed to like) i'd recommend not getting any at guns, and just getting SU85s. You seemed very comfortable barraging enemy troops into a bloody gore with your AT gun so its your call.
Ending statements
I never saw the enemy get his tiger ace, but the best bet is to range him with su85s/at guns or do something like this: http://www.twitch.tv/andyisrippin/c/3407676 . Or mines. They are tough. I'm still trying to figure that one out myself. You really should be using buildings more, they are amazing. Also use the shift command for capping. I notice you like idle units MVGame.
Hope this helps you out Yenz, and it was a GG nonetheless. Thanks for posting.
- JaminROCK
25 Jan 2014, 17:31 PM
#4
Posts: 24
Thank you for your analysis. I take and keep all your advices.
Yes, the Ace don't comes, but its my fear. It's the reason I make maybe to much AT.
I underused T2, and spent too much in shock. Maybe I need keep mp to used Artillry.
Thanks JaminROCK
Yes, the Ace don't comes, but its my fear. It's the reason I make maybe to much AT.
I underused T2, and spent too much in shock. Maybe I need keep mp to used Artillry.
Thanks JaminROCK
25 Jan 2014, 19:07 PM
#5
Posts: 329
Permanently Banneduncheck this map as Soviets always.
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