Moscow celebrates Victory Day 2013

"We will always remember that it was specifically Russia, the Soviet Union, that undermined the abhorrent, bloody, supercilious plans of the Nazis and kept them from controlling the world. Our soldiers saved freedom and independence by defending their motherland without sparing themselves, liberating Europe and claiming a victory whose grandeur will live on for centuries."

Putin talking about freedom and independence... haha that made my day

We will always remember that it was specifically Russia, the Soviet Union, that undermined the abhorrent, bloody, supercilious plans of the Nazis and kept them from controlling the world.

It cannot (IMO) be denied that the USSR did the heavy lifting....but can it ever be demonstrated now what parts of the USSR did most., and in what way?

Our soldiers saved freedom and independence by defending their motherland without sparing themselves.....

Unarguable (IMO)

....liberating Europe...

From the Hitler Gang: yes. But given what came its place: just no.

and claiming a victory whose grandeur will live on for centuries."

The manner of the victory is highly questionable, given the atrocities and subsequent oppression which accompanied it.

Hey guys. Why so much aggression? It's very important day for us and our veterans. Just show respect to those who fought for our future.

Greetings from Ukraine.

good job Jason, but why you put here picture with chinese? MVGame

Hey guys. Why so much aggression? It's very important day for us and our veterans. Just show respect to those who fought for our future.

Greetings from Ukraine.

Here's the thing.. this is not the view people have in several other parts of Europe. There is a _lot_ of bitterness regarding this period.

For many.. the Soviet Union liberating their country was simply replacing one invasion with another (which lasted much longer!)

Edit: also.. consider the fact that the Soviet Union simply gave no fucks about what was going on with Hitler and the rest of Europe - they got half of Poland and a 'do not attack'-declaration. The war started for the Soviet Union the moment Germany attacked - up to that point, they could be considered as if cooperating with the Germans.

Hey guys. Why so much aggression? It's very important day for us and our veterans. Just show respect to those who fought for our future.

Greetings from Ukraine.

Celebrating mass murderers

Celebrating mass murderers

You forgot 45 years of occupation.

Ok. I'm just not going to discuss. We don't know all the truth. Our people gave no fuck about politic, they just wanted to defend their country and families. We celebrate this day for our veterans and memory to people who died in the war. It's your right not celebrate this day.

p.s. sorry for my English

Ok. I'm just not going to discuss. We don't know all the truth. Our people gave no fuck about politic, they just wanted to defend their country and families. And we celebrate this day for our veterans and memory to people who died in the war. it's your right not celebrate this day.

p.s. sorry for my English

Well, the issue here is Putin claiming that the Soviet Union liberated Europe while occupying half of it for 45 years.

Also, what do you mean by "We don't know all the truth"?

Also, what do you mean by "We don't know all the truth"?

I am about the nuances of historical events

Well, the issue here is Putin claiming that the Soviet Union liberated Europe while occupying half of it for 45 years.

Yeah, it's funny but as i said, we not celebrating this day as occupation of Europe. For many of us it's a day of saving the Europe and our homes.
And one question. Are you think that occupation of Nazis would be better?

Yeah, it's funny but as i said, we not celebrating this day as occupation of Europe. For many of us it's a day of saving the Europe and our homes.
And one question. Are you think that occupation of Nazis would be better?

Propaganda has truly left marks on you. (no offense)

If this day is for you a reminder of the fallen only, i dont want to talk it bad for you.
However this victory parade with tanks and other military stuff is a reminder and a celebration of the soviet union aswell. Soviet union, a even more barbaric construct than nazi germany. I wonder why this event is held every year...
Are the dead german soldiers mentioned on this day with the same respect as the dead russian soldiers? (this is a serious question, because im curious)

I am about the nuances of historical events

It doesn't really matter how you perceive the events that transpired. It is much more important how they transpired for the people who were actually affected.

You honestly can't think that holding an entire country for 45 years with a population which doesn't want you there shouldn't be counted as an occupation? This was the case in Poland and several other countries.

Edit:
Imagine this:
Some random guy storms into your house and forces you to live in a small room under your stairs without access to the rest of the house.
It this fair? Depends on whom you ask. I'm pretty sure that the guy who just stormed in thinks this is alright (being crazy and all), but you might have a different opinion.

Minutes later, I come in. I throw out the previous guy oppressing you and I let you not only have the room under the stairs, but I also let you use your bathroom.

I hope you see where this is going.

Propaganda has truly left marks on you. (no offense)

If this day is for you a reminder of the fallen only, i dont want to talk it bad for you.
However this victory parade with tanks and other military stuff is a reminder and a celebration of the soviet union aswell. Soviet union, a even more barbaric construct than nazi germany. I wonder why this event is held every year...
Are the dead german soldiers mentioned on this day with the same respect as the dead russian soldiers? (this is a serious question, because im curious)

Soviet Union more barbaric lol? Germans killing 6 million Jews in the most savage way is not inhumane at all right? I don't think anyone could top Nazi Germany's barbarism during ww2. TZer0 and GeneralCH are just two bitter, confused individuals.

Soviet Union more barbaric lol? Germans killing 6 million Jews in the most savage way is not inhumane at all right? I don't think anyone could top Nazi Germany's barbarism during ww2. TZer0 and GeneralCH are just two bitter, confused individuals.

IronRoman.. you're known for trolling. Are you serious?

I did not claim that the Nazis were better, but to be honest: the Russians were not much better... (individual links)

World War 2 wasn't about the British and US vs. the Nazi Germany.
World War 2 wasn't about the Soviet Union vs. the Nazi Germany.
World War 2 was about the Soviet Union vs. the Nazi Germany with a minor skirmish happening on the western front. The former translates roughly to "one oppressor fighting another oppressor" and the latter translates to "a campaign where the total allied deaths equal that of allied deaths in the battle of Stalingrad".

I will not deny in any way that the Soviet Union did most of the fighting in this war, but to claim that they liberated Europe is stretching it. They seized it themselves after liberating it from the nazis in that case.

Soviet Union more barbaric lol? Germans killing 6 million Jews in the most savage way is not inhumane at all right? I don't think anyone could top Nazi Germany's barbarism during ww2. TZer0 and GeneralCH are just two bitter, confused individuals.

Lets just be happy that Nazi Germany was defeated and the terror did end. The same i cant say for soviet union.

This victory day stuff is keeping this regime alive every year, which i find quite offending. Its not about honouring the fallen, but about worshipping a barbaric regime.
Its like celebrating the rise of power of Nazis by showing a military parade in berlin with a big swastika.
Thats why i asked in the previous post, if fallen german soldiers are honoured aswell. If so this celebration would be really a anti war topic and a attempt of conciliation, because former enemys meet at the same base. However according to Putins words i highly doubt that.
I do not blame the russian people participating btw. They didnt evolve yet in the process to think about their past and get over it. It was always blocked by the regime and instead propaganda was spread, which people still believe today.
In fact since soviet union is no more, nationalism is rising in russia.

About your reply "Germans were evil because of killing jews" shows me that you have WWII knowledge out of a nutshell (cheap documentaries and movies). Read more books, instead of watching cheap documentaries and movies.
Victors write the history and leave their own barbarism out. Stalin did kill jews too, because they were jews, you knew?

Im not gonna continue here, because this is not the forum for it. For the reasons i said above this victory day report was not clever to post in the first place.

Edit:
Imagine this:
Some random guy storms into your house and forces you to live in a small room under your stairs without access to the rest of the house.
It this fair? Depends on whom you ask. I'm pretty sure that the guy who just stormed in thinks this is alright (being crazy and all), but you might have a different opinion.

Minutes later, I come in. I throw out the previous guy oppressing you and I let you not only have the room under the stairs, but I also let you use your bathroom.

I hope you see where this is going.

What really takes the cake is when you have intellectuals in the west saying that the second guy is actually better than the first guy -even 'right'/justified etc- because he let you use the bathroom..

For most the Russians that actually did the fighting it was about defending their homeland. The young and poor were fighting the war that the old politicians created.

What really takes the cake is when you have intellectuals in the west saying that the second guy is actually better than the first guy -even 'right'/justified etc- because he let you use the bathroom..

The second guy is better by a very slight margin. Obviously, his actions are also in no way justifiable.

To ksay... consider this: why was it okay for the Soviet Union to take over and control other states for 45 years, while the other allied forces didn't permanently occupy the countries they liberated.

For most the Russians that actually did the fighting it was about defending their homeland. The young and poor were fighting the war that the old politicians created.

True, but we're discussing Putin's statements and the symbolism of the event.

The second guy is better by a very slight margin. Obviously, his actions are also in no way justifiable.

To ksay... consider this: why was it okay for the Soviet Union to take over and control other states for 45 years, while the other allied forces didn't permanently occupy the countries they liberated.


True, but we're discussing Putin's statements and the symbolism of the event.

Doesn't really matter what he says, WW2 has nothing to do with him

Ok. I'm just not going to discuss. We don't know all the truth. Our people gave no fuck about politic, they just wanted to defend their country and families. We celebrate this day for our veterans and memory to people who died in the war. It's your right not celebrate this day.

p.s. sorry for my English

Then why Russia publicly is denigrating Latvia for elderly people to place flowers in remembrance of their fellow relates who died in war fighting for their freedom from 'CCCP' in the Latvian Legion? They did the same thing as veterans serving in other army:

Draftees were given a choice between serving in the Waffen-SS Legions, serving as (German Wehrmacht) auxiliaries, or being sent to a slave labour camp in Germany. Those who tried to avoid one of those options were arrested and sent to concentration camps. As a result, only 15-20% of the soldiers serving in the legion were actual volunteers.

Oberführer Adolf Ax, commander of the 15th Division, reported on on 27 January 1945: "They are first and foremost Latvians. They want a sustainable Latvian nation state. Forced to choose between Germany and Russia, they have chosen Germany, because they seek co-operation with western civilization. The rule of the Germans seems to them to be the lesser of two evils."

This perspective resulted in part from the Soviet occupation between 1940 and 1941, called "The Year of Terror" (Latvian: Baigais gads) during which tens of thousands of Latvian families were executed or deported to Siberia with men separated from the women and children to break down resistance

This is why those words quoted in the Topic seems pathetic to many many people.

Yes..., people mostly do things for the right reasons - at least majority - then why Russia cannot honor sufferings of other just them selves?