Login

russian armor

Lümmel's World War 2 museum!

31 Jul 2014, 16:23 PM
#41
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

I'd really like to see the Sd.Kfz. 234/4 "PaK Wagen" in CoH2! Either with a Pak40 or as the lighter 2cm version (maybe with Pak upgrade). I love especially those more obscure weapons that were basically cobbled together from what was left from old models and upgunned or adapted in other ways (like the Stug 3: Old Panzer 3 chassis -> high powered low profile assault gun)


That would most likely be a glass canon with the damage of the Jagdpanzer 4, which role the Puma already inhabits. So, won't be implemented i think.
31 Jul 2014, 20:57 PM
#42
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

Hey Lummel!

Thank you for a very interesting archive.:)

I do not know -so hopefully you can assist -

1) was the Comet a tank used in combat in NW Europe before May 1945?
2) Does the figure of 1,186 produced only go to May 1945? Or to the entire production line, which apparently ceased in or about 1958?

1 Aug 2014, 04:56 AM
#43
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

Hey Lummel!

Thank you for a very interesting archive.:)

I do not know -so hopefully you can assist -

1) was the Comet a tank used in combat in NW Europe before May 1945?
2) Does the figure of 1,186 produced only go to May 1945? Or to the entire production line, which apparently ceased in or about 1958?



As far as 1) is concerned, the production of the Comet has started in the late 1944, so i doubt that any of them have seen combat before 1945 in small numbers. I'm not sure about that though!

2) The listed numbers only show the numbers that have been produced during WW2! The actual numbers may be higher or even lower after the war.
1 Aug 2014, 05:13 AM
#44
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

Panzerkampfwagen 6 "Tiger" axisaxis

As my vacation starts today and I feel like being generous (;)) i present you my favourite tank, the Tiger 1! Never having seen any WW2 tank before, the Tiger was a simple beauty made out of steel. No sloped armour, just massive, angular steel.

Production: 1942-1944
Number Built: 1,349
Crew: 5
Weight: 55 t
Engine Ouput: 700 hp
Speed on Roads: 38 km/h
Armament: 88 mm KwK 36 L/56 gun
2x7,92 mm machine guns

The Tiger has always been steeped in myth and legend.

The Tiger is the most famous tank of World War 2. Even though it was not until 1942 that it was first used in action, its roots can be traced back to the 1930s. For that reason, the Tiger's design is quite conservative and does not yet incorporate sloping armour. It is the same characteristic German tank design that was also used for Panzers 3 and 4.


(This massive piece of steel was absolutely impressive. Definitely my favourite tank by appearance!)

The Tiger's armour and firepower were increased to the extreme. Tremendously thick armour was combined with and extremely effective and accurate gun. In order to realise such a system, farreaching technical solutions for the tank's interior had to be found.

So even though its design was not extraordinary, the Tiger was a technically sophisicated state-of-the-art tank. It was, for that reason, a very expensive vehicle that had never been intended for mass production. Its limited range and proneness to technical failures were a permanent source of problems.





The war situation prevented the Tiger from ever playing its originally intended role as a "Durchbruchwagen" (breakthrough vehicle). Rather, the Tigers had to serve as battle tanks at all the front's hot spots, where they were entirely destroyed or lost. But even though individual Tigers proved to be formidable and achieved high kill rates, their overall limited number prevented them from having a real impact on the war.

The "Tiger myth" was already created during the war. Its distinctive form, the high combat power, the propaganda - all this resulted in both sides glorifying the Tiger as being invincible; while the war was still going on, and even more so when it was over.


(T34/76 shot right above the track, didn't fully penetrate.)
1 Aug 2014, 23:56 PM
#45
avatar of Oberstleutnant

Posts: 36

Thanks a lot!! Awesome pics
2 Aug 2014, 09:03 AM
#46
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

Sd.Kfz. 251/9 axisaxis

Production: 1939-1945 (all variants)
Number Built: 16,000 (all variants)
Crew: 3
Weight: 8.8 t
Engine Output: 100 hp
Speed on Roads: 52 km/h
Armament: 75 mm KwK 37 L/24 gun
7.92 mm machine gun

The "Stummel" ("stump") is one example of the rapidly growing variety of Sd.Kfz. 251 variants.



Armoured personnel carriers actually were armoured "battlefield taxis". They were designed to quickly transport troops into battle and back. This alternation between driving under armour protection and dismounted fight was the characteristic feature of the new panzergrenadiers that had been established in 1942.

But the vehicle's scope of tasks was quickly extended. Troops often had to wait in vain for fire support by friendly tanks or guns. As a consequence, a gun was fitted on some of the armoured personnel carriers. The "Taxi" was turned into a combat support vehicle.





The vehicle's name "Stummel" ("stumb") is derived from its short-barreled gun. This weapon was sufficient since the vehicle was only intended to be used against unarmoured targets like large crowds or field fortifications.

A longer barrel would only have been required for the fight against other tanks: A situation that had to be avoided by the lightly armoured personnel carrier at all costs.
2 Aug 2014, 09:31 AM
#47
avatar of Captain_Frog

Posts: 248

I have to say these pictures of the tanks in the museum are beautiful, I've saved a few for future reference. Have you ever thought of making the trip down to Bovington Tank Museum?

Again great pictures and information on all the tanks, I'll put this museum on my "to visit" list!
2 Aug 2014, 10:02 AM
#48
avatar of crispymids

Posts: 5

Not until you've stood in front of a Tiger (I did so at the Falaise Museum) can you imagine the morale effect of one of those rumbling towards your foxhole. The converted T-34 they used in Saving Private Ryan did no justice to this behemoth.
2 Aug 2014, 10:26 AM
#49
avatar of SlaYoU

Posts: 400

Many thanks, can't wait for the Panther ^^
2 Aug 2014, 13:06 PM
#50
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

I have to say these pictures of the tanks in the museum are beautiful, I've saved a few for future reference. Have you ever thought of making the trip down to Bovington Tank Museum?

Again great pictures and information on all the tanks, I'll put this museum on my "to visit" list!


I've considered it, but since I'm still a student, unfortunately i don't have the cash to afford a trip there. But I'm gonna visit another museum in germany that specialised in German military history in general, so that i will be able to expand this thread a little more in small arms, uniforms and history in general. Really appreciate your kind words!

Not until you've stood in front of a Tiger (I did so at the Falaise Museum) can you imagine the morale effect of one of those rumbling towards your foxhole. The converted T-34 they used in Saving Private Ryan did no justice to this behemoth.


This is exactly what i was thinking at the time. They had a t34/76 placed right next to it, and the differences in appearances were just huge. Sadly it was a Tiger 1 emerged from various different Tigers, so they just restored the hull of it, its basically empty inside.

3 Aug 2014, 11:17 AM
#51
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

Leichter Sprengladunsgsträger "Goliath" axisaxis

Production: 1942-1944
Number Built: 7,244 (wooot)
Weight: 0.36 t
Engine Output: 13.6 hp
Speed on Roads: 12 km/h
Armament: 75 kg of explosives

The Goliath was one of the first unmanned vehicles in military history.



The Goliath was a demolition vehicle. The operating soldier could steer it by cable on to targets in distances up to 1.5 km and cause it to explode without endangering himself. It was primarily intended to be used against obstacles like roadblocks or mindefields, but field fortifications and even tanks were demolished as well. The explosive charge, however, was quite small (75 kg, only a few ones carried 100 kg); and the vehicles were susceptoble to faults and difficult to handle. Out of the total of 7,244 Goliaths that had been produced, the Wehrmacht, at the end of the war, still had 6,324 (!!!) vehicles in its stock.

Starting in 1943, due cost-related reasons, the electric motor was replaced by a 12.5 hp two-stroke engine. The vehicle shown is equipped with an electric motor.

"Goliath" was an ironic name for the Wehrmacht's smallest tracked vehicle. It was ordered by Adolf Hitler in March 1944.

3 Aug 2014, 11:25 AM
#52
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Imagine if they would mount a little cannon on Goliath and put cat crew inside.

Just a random thought.
4 Aug 2014, 10:16 AM
#53
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

Jagdpanzer 4 axisaxis

Production: 1943-1944
Number Built: 769
Crew: 4
Weight: 24 t
Engine Ouput: 300 hp
Speed on Roads: 40 km/h
Armament: 75 mm PaK 38 L/48 gun
7.92 mm machine gun (give me AI capabilities RELIC!)

While many German tank destroyers (Jagdpanzer) were improvisations, the Jagdpanzer 4 was purposely designed.


(This one was a prototype)


(Final version)

In 1943, the Wehrmacht requested a special tank destroyer.: The vehicle was to have a low silhouette, sloped side plates, and a rigidly mounted main gun. This design enabled it to launch surprise attacks on enemy vehicles while cleverly expoiting the advantages offered by the terrain. The Jagdpanzer 4 offered adequate protection and, thanks to its lack of a complex turret strucutre, could be cost-effectively manufactured.

It fulfilled all expectations on operations. (Y u no useful COH2 Jagdpanzer 4?!)

The vehicle in the second picture above and below has been coated with Zimmerit. Zimmerit was a convrete like paste which was used to prevent the attachment of magnetic mines. Zimmerit was applied from September 1943. This practice, however, was abandoned one year later, when it turned out that the whole process not only was very elaborate but also very useless: The Wehrmacht's opponents did not use magnetically adhered mines. Would be a nice Vet 1 ability for Jagdpanzers: No more homing at nades.



4 Aug 2014, 12:19 PM
#54
avatar of SlaYoU

Posts: 400

Hello, thanks again for the photos, this time i do have a question: are the camos visible in your photos actual restored ones ? Or are these different from the ones used at the time ? I mean, depending on the field of operations, camos were differently applied and had different colors. I kinda felt the stock colors for Oberkommando and stock Wehrmacht into the game felt a little bit too "deserty" (read: beige) and did not reflect real camos used in the Eastern and Western fronts.

I might be wrong though, so maybe the museum had a little explanation on the topic. Also i thought the factory colors were the feldgrau (the green-gray also used for infantry uniforms), but i don't know if camos were applied on the field, varied on a day to day basis (depending on the weather, and special conditions of the ground / vegetation), or were kinda definitive once applied.

I know in historical re-colored documents, Panzers in general look rather khaki or even green, and i would like to know if it was assumptions made by the technicians who recolored them.
5 Aug 2014, 10:08 AM
#55
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2014, 12:19 PMSlaYoU
Hello, thanks again for the photos, this time i do have a question: are the camos visible in your photos actual restored ones ? Or are these different from the ones used at the time ? I mean, depending on the field of operations, camos were differently applied and had different colors. I kinda felt the stock colors for Oberkommando and stock Wehrmacht into the game felt a little bit too "deserty" (read: beige) and did not reflect real camos used in the Eastern and Western fronts.

I might be wrong though, so maybe the museum had a little explanation on the topic. Also i thought the factory colors were the feldgrau (the green-gray also used for infantry uniforms), but i don't know if camos were applied on the field, varied on a day to day basis (depending on the weather, and special conditions of the ground / vegetation), or were kinda definitive once applied.

I know in historical re-colored documents, Panzers in general look rather khaki or even green, and i would like to know if it was assumptions made by the technicians who recolored them.


As far as i know, most of the German camos were put on in the factories and readjusted by the soldiers when necessary.
The camos shown in the photos have indeed been restored to the original state, so that they are as authentic as possible.
Many of the tanks and vehicles shown here have seen combat in the western front, so there are no "winter-like" camos shown.

As far as COH2 is concerned, i think Relic's aim wasn't to be historically accurate, but simply to include as many camos as possible to maximize profit. ;-)
5 Aug 2014, 10:10 AM
#56
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

15-cm-sFH 18/1 auf GW 3/4 (Sf) "Hummel" axisaxis

Production: 1942-1945
Number Built: 666
Crew: 6
Weight: 24 t
Engine Output: 300 hp
Speed on Roads: 40 km/h
Armament: 150 mm sFH 18/1 L/30 howitzer
7.92 mm machine gun

The 15 cm sFH 18/1 or "Hummel" ("bumblebee"), is one example of the efforts to make artillery self-propellant.



Most of the Wehrmacht's artillery was still towed by horses or motor vehicles. Already before World War 2 broke out, the German armed forces had been demanding the establishment of a motorised armoured artillery that would be able to follow the tanks into battle by own engine power so as to immediately provide the required artillery support. The Hummel largely met this requirement.

The theoretical effective range of the mounted gun was about 13 km. But this could only be achieved if the gun was fired by map at a known static target as it had been done during World War 1.



The Hummel did not fully exploit the theoretical range of its gun. Instead, it provided short range support for combat forces close to the frontline. It did so to be able to react and respond rapidly.

This proximity came at a price, though: in 1944 a total of 240 Hummel armoured howitzers was destroyed or had to be abandoned by their crews at the Eastern front alone.

6 Aug 2014, 09:45 AM
#57
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

Sturmpanzer 4 "Brummbär" axisaxis

Production: 1943 - 1945
Number Built: 306
Crew: 5
Weight: 28.2 t
Engine Output: 300 hp
Speed on Roads: 38 km/h
Armament: 150 mm StuH 43 L/12 howitzer
7.92 mm machine gun

The Brummbär ("grouch") was employed to provide fire support against "soft" targets.



The design was based on the chassis of the Panzer 4. This was fitted with an armoured superstructure featuring a short-barreled Sturmhaubitze assault gun. But the weight of the gun and the armour were too heavy for the chassis. This led to frequent breakdowns of the suspension and the transmission.



The 100 mm front armour and 50 mm side armour plates provided effective protection when needed. It was, however, rarely intentionally employed against enemy tanks. The Brummbär had been primarily designed to engage fortifications and infantry crouds under the cover provided by other tanks.



The shown vehicle has steel road wheels. The road wheels would usually have been fitted with rubber tyres but rubber was becoming scarce in the German sphere of influence. The rubbe casing was therefore omitted which caused noise and vibrations inside the vehicle.

6 Aug 2014, 09:52 AM
#58
avatar of SlaYoU

Posts: 400



As far as i know, most of the German camos were put on in the factories and readjusted by the soldiers when necessary.
The camos shown in the photos have indeed been restored to the original state, so that they are as authentic as possible.
Many of the tanks and vehicles shown here have seen combat in the western front, so there are no "winter-like" camos shown.

As far as COH2 is concerned, i think Relic's aim wasn't to be historically accurate, but simply to include as many camos as possible to maximize profit. ;-)


Thanks for the update and the new batch of articles :)
7 Aug 2014, 11:48 AM
#59
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

T-34/85 sovietssoviets

Production: 1943-1944
Number Built: 1,346
Crew: 4
Weight: 32 t
Engine Output: 500 hp
Speed on Roads: 55 km/h
Armament: 85 mm ZiS-S-53 L/54.6 gun
2x7.62 mm machine guns

The T-34/85 with its more powerful gun, better sights and further improvements was an enhaced version of the original T-34. Its new 85 mm gun enabled the tank to engage the German Panther and Tiger tanks. Between 1943 and 1945 the Soviet Union built a total of about 20,000 T-34/85



With more than 1,300 tanks, the T-34/85 initially represented the bulk of tanks in service with the National People's Army, until it was withdrawn from active service by the end of the 1960s. After that, the T-54 and the T-55 became the standard tanks of the National People's Army. Many T-34/85 however, remained in service with reserve formations. The last 33 tanks of the National People's Army were scrapped in 1989.



8 Aug 2014, 08:29 AM
#60
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

Panzerkampfwagen 5 "Panther" axisaxis

Production: 1943-1945
Number Built: Approx. 2,290
Crew: 5
Weight: 45.5 t
Engine Output: 700 hp
Speed on Roads: 46 km/h
Armament: 75 mm KwK 42 L/70 gun
2x7.92 mm machine guns

The Panther is regarded as one of the best tanks of World War 2.





One of the tanks developed by the German Reich in response to the moder Soviet T-34 was the Panther. It combined high firepower, excellent mobility and effective protection in a well thought-out design.

Having been rushed out of the factories and directly into combat, the Panther initially had to cope with severe tehcnical deficiencies. But all of these were eventually corrected. The Ausführung A (variant A) on the pictures was technically mature.







The Panther was intended to replace the Panzer 4 as the new standard tank. This goal, however, was never achieved since the industry was not able to meet the demand. Still, the total number of approx. 6,000 produced tanks makes quite a high number by German standards.

The Panther in the pictures is a Befehlswagen (yes, the OKW Command Panther really existed!). It is characterised by better radio equipment, making it suited for the command of larger units. Features to recognise this variant include the star antenna at the rear and the missing machine gun port next to the gun barrel.



2 users are browsing this thread: 2 guests

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

552 users are online: 552 guests
1 post in the last 24h
7 posts in the last week
39 posts in the last month
Registered members: 49062
Welcome our newest member, Mclatc16
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM