does hand held AT need a slight buff in damage?

This post is mostly for bazookas, but panzershrecks need a bit of help too. So both have good penetration which is very nice, the only problem is that they do not do a whole lot of damage, and in the case of panzer grens can easily just be a liability.

The main part of this post goes to the American bazooka. So my reason for wanting a slight damage buff is that at 75 munitions a pop, even around 4 of them is not terribly scary, any early armor can easily kite out and come back to harass. You can never really secure kills with bazookas, and going bazookas into the major with the weapon rack system should be viable. My problem with them is that You still pretty much need the captain for AT guns at some point. I love everything in the lieutenant structure, but if there are any early armor you still need an AT gun which now you have to drop 80 fuel down on which puts you even further behind to get actual armor with the major.

Panzer shrecks need a bit of help too. For Ostheer the threat of loosing them to your opponent due to AOE out ways the want to get them, and for OKW having a slight damage boost would help a lot vs the US early AA truck, and a lot vs Soviet armor in general because you have to make use of P shrecks and little AT guns to deal with both T34s until you can afford armor.

What I would really like to see is not a buff, but a cost decrease for Schrecks speaking about OKW schrecks. WTF, 2 ostheer schrecks are 120 amo and one okw schreck is 90 amo? What kind of math is this?! Ok, I understand they need to be a little more expensive, but the difference is to damn high. They should cost around 70 amo.

What I would really like to see is not a buff, but a cost decrease for Schrecks speaking about OKW schrecks. WTF, 2 ostheer schrecks are 120 amo and one okw schreck is 90 amo? What kind of math is this?! Ok, I understand they need to be a little more expensive, but the difference is to damn high. They should cost around 70 amo.

That is fine and all, but even so they are not scary unless you have like 5 of them running around with high vet which at that point the US AA truck, or armored car, M3, or M5, has been harassing you for quite awhile.

Panzerschreks do very nice damage. They aren't that great against heavy tanks, but they are not intended to take out heavy tanks. They are designed to counter light tanks and do serious damage to medium tanks. And this is exactly what they do. OKW schreks are a little overpriced. I understand that they need to be more expensive than wehrmach schreks, seeing as those replace valuable MP44 assault rifles on expensive squads, but 90 ammo is too much.

Bazookas are panzerscherks lite. They can be equipped on all your forces and are reasonably priced considering their performance and availability.

The problems OKW and Wehrmacht have with the AA truck is that the AA truck is too good for its timing in the game. Better schreks might solve this problem, but it would change the balance between schreks and every other tank in the game. The more logical step would be to balance the AA truck properly.

Edit: Also, improving hand held AT even further is a big slap in the face for soviets, who don't have any hand-held AT to begin with. Only hand-held anti-light vehicle weapons in a few doctrines.

I think the point of Bazooka/Panzersherck is to deal with light vehicles and medium tanks: sometimes you might need to use them in large numbers.

We have Pak/zis AT gun to deal tanks.

At least be happy that those thing still better than AT gun from Russian Guard squad even those are free lol.

P/S: The explain with OKW Panzersherck is not acceptable for me at least for now: Why would you want cold immute in summer map ? I rather be able to build sandbags faster with that upgrade.

I actually like the current cost setup for RPGs. I like RPGs as a supporting AT weapon, and not as a AT blobbing instigator. In vcoh they were too cheap and RPG blobs worked too much.

In this game you'd really have to drain your munitions supply empty to RPG blob and that's a good thing.

My rule of thumb is that the bazooka needs as least 3 tubes to be effective, and the Panzershreck needs at least 2 tubes.

The Pshreck does 120 and the Bazooka does 80. Anything over 120 is too much IMO.

Panzerschreks do very nice damage. They aren't that great against heavy tanks, but they are not intended to take out heavy tanks. They are designed to counter light tanks and do serious damage to medium tanks. And this is exactly what they do. OKW schreks are a little overpriced. I understand that they need to be more expensive than wehrmach schreks, seeing as those replace valuable MP44 assault rifles on expensive squads, but 90 ammo is too much.

Bazookas are panzerscherks lite. They can be equipped on all your forces and are reasonably priced considering their performance and availability.

The problems OKW and Wehrmacht have with the AA truck is that the AA truck is too good for its timing in the game. Better schreks might solve this problem, but it would change the balance between schreks and every other tank in the game. The more logical step would be to balance the AA truck properly.

Edit: Also, improving hand held AT even further is a big slap in the face for soviets, who don't have any hand-held AT to begin with. Only hand-held anti-light vehicle weapons in a few doctrines.

The difference between the hand held and Sovs AT is that it is easy to get early zis. If you go Lieutenant first, you have severely delayed your ability to get solid AT. In the OKW position they have an even easier time getting solid early AT with the T0 rekentenwerfer. While you can get panzershrecks to help, the AT gun has the nail to finish off early vehicles.

From playing and watching many of the streamers, the AA truck is strong but people have adapted to it well. After using 60 fuel on that, you are even further behind in getting solid AT.

My point for US is that unlike the other factions, you have to go into the captain first in order to reliably deal with early and mid game armor while still allowing you to set up for the mid to late game tanks. Bazookas in their current state do not do enough damage. Pshrecks are in a similar state, but Ostheer and OKW have cheap access to AT guns to effectively deal with armor.

Players have adapted well to the AA halftrack? I watched a few games of OMGPOP vs Jesulin and those all ended with USA victories thanks to the AA halftrack raping everything. It counters light vehicles (bar PUMA) by itself without the need for additional AT. The heavily armed lieutenant, that comes for free with teching up, assures that if your opponent gets an AT gun to deal with the AA halftrack, he will lose a ton of map control. This gives the USA plenty of fuel to get a captain out if the enemy somehow, someway, managed to scrape together enough fuel for a medium tank.

There has to be a moment of weakness for the USA. If you can just freely open with a super powerful early game and not have a moment of weakness in the mid-late game, you can just go lieutenant -> Zookas -> major and overrun overrun your enemy with cheap tanks at 10-11 minutes. The need for a captain is a delay in tech that insures that games don't always end before the 15 minute mark.

Currently it is still strong, But I see players doing well by kiting with the puma by use of its longer range. Anyhow in due time the AA track will get nerfed again and the bazooka problem will be more noticeable.

I can get a Puma out around the same time AA halftrack come out so I actually happy to see them cause I know they just waste some fuels for it .

As OKW, AA halftrack/ M3/ stuart never a problem for me.

Get rid of this guys avatar, please.

I dont need to, or want to, look at smiling bleeding dicks while browsing a Coh2 forum.

I think bazookas dont need a buff...

But i know that bazookas inf. have "problems" of accuracy...

Veterans can do well, maybe bazookas buff risk the tank war in coh2...

Get rid of this guys avatar, please.

I dont need to, or want to, look at smiling bleeding dicks while browsing a Coh2 forum.

i dont think thats blood...

Players have adapted well to the AA halftrack? I watched a few games of OMGPOP vs Jesulin and those all ended with USA victories thanks to the AA halftrack raping everything. It counters light vehicles (bar PUMA) by itself without the need for additional AT. The heavily armed lieutenant, that comes for free with teching up, assures that if your opponent gets an AT gun to deal with the AA halftrack, he will lose a ton of map control. This gives the USA plenty of fuel to get a captain out if the enemy somehow, someway, managed to scrape together enough fuel for a medium tank.

There has to be a moment of weakness for the USA. If you can just freely open with a super powerful early game and not have a moment of weakness in the mid-late game, you can just go lieutenant -> Zookas -> major and overrun overrun your enemy with cheap tanks at 10-11 minutes. The need for a captain is a delay in tech that insures that games don't always end before the 15 minute mark.

That showmatch was god awful and a poor representation of the meta. Watch some of the current shoutcasts for some better games.

That showmatch was god awful and a poor representation of the meta. Watch some of the current shoutcasts for some better games.

Agreed.

All the showmatch proved was that these two have no clue on how to play OKW.

I'd rather see Luvnest play there as he actually does have a basic understanding of the faction.

That showmatch was god awful and a poor representation of the meta. Watch some of the current shoutcasts for some better games.

Agreed.

All the showmatch proved was that these two have no clue on how to play OKW.

I'd rather see Luvnest play there as he actually does have a basic understanding of the faction.

Hehe, out of the current OKW top 10 ladder I have played No.l VindicareX, No.3 Jesulin, No.5 CaptainSPrice, and also Cataclaw a few times. These games all end the same way: USF wins regardless who's playing it.

I would love to play some of these shoutcasted players who has a clue. It always amazes me when somebody pulls a Tier 1 OKW, squanders manpower on ISG and the game somehow lasts longer than 20 minutes. My clueless opponents referenced above would never let me get away with something so stupid, nor would I them.

The only US loss I have incurred in the new expansion, ladder or custom lobby practice, is to No.6 Yeziwen. He actually is one player that genuinely has a clue. Since few none-alpha players, me included, knew the puma garrison nuke before meeting it. Perhaps we should all strive to play more clued like him. Although how do you get 11 losses when all the garrisons on the map are belong to you? That I will never understand.

there is always the airdropped atgun from airborne doctrine if you wanna skip t3